V8 Conversion Owners...what springs?, Looking to stiffen my ride! Options

[streetrover]

Took my "in progress" v8 conversion out for a spin the other day. 4.0 liter aluminum v8 from Range Rover. Ran strong but stock suspension was very spongy. Felt like driving mom's Buick. What have you done to retain the wonderful stiffness and handling of the original 914?

[Bruce Hinds]

All that discussion on spring rate is interesting, but some of it depends too on how much tire he's going to be running.
300-400 lb springs would feel a lot softer with big meats under wide flares but probably feel like riding on bricks in a narrow body with 205/60s.

The other thing mentioned is all the extra weight. 250 lbs is not that much extra weight.

My SBC is just over 300 hp and i'm running 2oo lb springs, stock sway bar in the rear and a 911 bar up front, 22mm I think. The tires are 215/60s all the way around on 15x6 front and 15x7s rear.

I used to drive 34 miles of canyon road to Estes Park, Colo every week and it was just a HOOT. It was a perfect balance and I could steer it with throttle on the increasing and decreasing radius turns.

It all just has to balance to get a nice combination you like. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[stewteral]

All that discussion on spring rate is interesting, but some of it depends too on how much tire he's going to be running.
300-400 lb springs would feel a lot softer with big meats under wide flares but probably feel like riding on bricks in a narrow body with 205/60s.

The other thing mentioned is all the extra weight. 250 lbs is not that much extra weight.

My SBC is just over 300 hp and i'm running 2oo lb springs, stock sway bar in the rear and a 911 bar up front, 22mm I think. The tires are 215/60s all the way around on 15x6 front and 15x7s rear.

I used to drive 34 miles of canyon road to Estes Park, Colo every week and it was just a HOOT. It was a perfect balance and I could steer it with throttle on the increasing and decreasing radius turns.

It all just has to balance to get a nice combination you like. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

Hey Bruce,

Just for reference: my car runs 315/35-17 Hoosier DOT Slicks with a very stiff racing carcass. For a SOFTER ride, I'd go with your 215/60 tires with a tall, soft sidewall. Even on the Hoosiers, the ride would not upset the wife with 300 lb springs.

Secondly: the issue of weight is not just about lbs for a 914, it's about TALL weight that makes the car want to roll in corners. The 914 was designed with a low CG of a V8 engine and a low-roll chassis. After bump-steering all 4 corners, I learned that the rear suspension TOES-IN .100" for each inch of compression (the loaded tire in a corner) while the other wheel TOES-OUT the same .100" as the unloaded wheel. This means BOTH rear wheels turn toward the center of the corner in roll.
Thus, understeer is guaranteed unless mods are made. My guess is that Porsche
wanted to be SURE of no oversteer in the era of Ralph Nader.

I'm glad you like the balance of your car, but have a question about balance: With narrow tires, are you changing the handling with the trottle (power induced oversteer)? If you were to take a corner on the limit at 50-60 on a steady , slightly-positive throttle, what would the car do? Would it be neutral, understeering or oversteering?
-- I'm thinking understeer, but since U/S is stable, it's not a bad thing and especially if you like it. My case is very different: I'm trying to micro-tune the chassis balance for the max cornering speed on track and I HATE understeer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Happy motoring on those Colorado roads!

Terry

[Bruce Hinds]

All that discussion on spring rate is interesting, but some of it depends too on how much tire he's going to be running.
300-400 lb springs would feel a lot softer with big meats under wide flares but probably feel like riding on bricks in a narrow body with 205/60s.

The other thing mentioned is all the extra weight. 250 lbs is not that much extra weight.

My SBC is just over 300 hp and i'm running 2oo lb springs, stock sway bar in the rear and a 911 bar up front, 22mm I think. The tires are 215/60s all the way around on 15x6 front and 15x7s rear.

I used to drive 34 miles of canyon road to Estes Park, Colo every week and it was just a HOOT. It was a perfect balance and I could steer it with throttle on the increasing and decreasing radius turns.

It all just has to balance to get a nice combination you like. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

Hey Bruce,

Just for reference: my car runs 315/35-17 Hoosier DOT Slicks with a very stiff racing carcass. For a SOFTER ride, I'd go with your 215/60 tires with a tall, soft sidewall. Even on the Hoosiers, the ride would not upset the wife with 300 lb springs.

Secondly: the issue of weight is not just about lbs for a 914, it's about TALL weight that makes the car want to roll in corners. The 914 was designed with a low CG of a V8 engine and a low-roll chassis. After bump-steering all 4 corners, I learned that the rear suspension TOES-IN .100" for each inch of compression (the loaded tire in a corner) while the other wheel TOES-OUT the same .100" as the unloaded wheel. This means BOTH rear wheels turn toward the center of the corner in roll.
Thus, understeer is guaranteed unless mods are made. My guess is that Porsche
wanted to be SURE of no oversteer in the era of Ralph Nader.

I'm glad you like the balance of your car, but have a question about balance: With narrow tires, are you changing the handling with the trottle (power induced oversteer)? If you were to take a corner on the limit at 50-60 on a steady , slightly-positive throttle, what would the car do? Would it be neutral, understeering or oversteering?
-- I'm thinking understeer, but since U/S is stable, it's not a bad thing and especially if you like it. My case is very different: I'm trying to micro-tune the chassis balance for the max cornering speed on track and I HATE understeer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Happy motoring on those Colorado roads!

Terry

hey Terry,
I miss the colorado roads, we left there many years ago. I can't really answer your question about the understeer or over, It was just a delight on the mountain roads. I can remember putting down the power in the turns and lifting it would trun in slightly and adding power the back end would squat just a little and straighten out some.

I know 205/60s on the front 15x6 wheels is a little large and I may have had a better foot print if I'd used 205s. Over all though is was a blast.

I know what you mean by the low CG... I did some auto cross while I was in CO and a nice set up 2 litre would clean my clock. I know my car was way more fun on those mountain roads, because I'd also done it in a '73 2.0LE that I'd had hotrodded by Sims in Dallas before I built the V8 car.

Lowering the car some helps and I imagine the little alum. buick will be a nice set up.

[stewteral]

All that discussion on spring rate is interesting, but some of it depends too on how much tire he's going to be running.
300-400 lb springs would feel a lot softer with big meats under wide flares but probably feel like riding on bricks in a narrow body with 205/60s.

The other thing mentioned is all the extra weight. 250 lbs is not that much extra weight.

My SBC is just over 300 hp and i'm running 2oo lb springs, stock sway bar in the rear and a 911 bar up front, 22mm I think. The tires are 215/60s all the way around on 15x6 front and 15x7s rear.

I used to drive 34 miles of canyon road to Estes Park, Colo every week and it was just a HOOT. It was a perfect balance and I could steer it with throttle on the increasing and decreasing radius turns.

It all just has to balance to get a nice combination you like. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

Hey Bruce,

Just for reference: my car runs 315/35-17 Hoosier DOT Slicks with a very stiff racing carcass. For a SOFTER ride, I'd go with your 215/60 tires with a tall, soft sidewall. Even on the Hoosiers, the ride would not upset the wife with 300 lb springs.

Secondly: the issue of weight is not just about lbs for a 914, it's about TALL weight that makes the car want to roll in corners. The 914 was designed with a low CG of a V8 engine and a low-roll chassis. After bump-steering all 4 corners, I learned that the rear suspension TOES-IN .100" for each inch of compression (the loaded tire in a corner) while the other wheel TOES-OUT the same .100" as the unloaded wheel. This means BOTH rear wheels turn toward the center of the corner in roll.
Thus, understeer is guaranteed unless mods are made. My guess is that Porsche
wanted to be SURE of no oversteer in the era of Ralph Nader.

I'm glad you like the balance of your car, but have a question about balance: With narrow tires, are you changing the handling with the trottle (power induced oversteer)? If you were to take a corner on the limit at 50-60 on a steady , slightly-positive throttle, what would the car do? Would it be neutral, understeering or oversteering?
-- I'm thinking understeer, but since U/S is stable, it's not a bad thing and especially if you like it. My case is very different: I'm trying to micro-tune the chassis balance for the max cornering speed on track and I HATE understeer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Happy motoring on those Colorado roads!

Terry

hey Terry,
I miss the colorado roads, we left there many years ago. I can't really answer your question about the understeer or over, It was just a delight on the mountain roads. I can remember putting down the power in the turns and lifting it would trun in slightly and adding power the back end would squat just a little and straighten out some.

I know 205/60s on the front 15x6 wheels is a little large and I may have had a better foot print if I'd used 205s. Over all though is was a blast.

I know what you mean by the low CG... I did some auto cross while I was in CO and a nice set up 2 litre would clean my clock. I know my car was way more fun on those mountain roads, because I'd also done it in a '73 2.0LE that I'd had hotrodded by Sims in Dallas before I built the V8 car.

Lowering the car some helps and I imagine the little alum. buick will be a nice set up.

Bruce,

Trailing throttle oversteer, now that is a fun setup. It seems you have worked your way around the dreaded "terminal understeer."

Hey I look down at your personal info and was surprised to see that you got your first Porsche in '64! Dang, you must be as old as I: my first car was a '54 Porsche Cabriolet which I bought in '64!

Best,
Terry