Opinions on placing car in neutral at stop lights. Options

[Cuda911]

Some people claim that if you are a a stop light with the car in gear, but clutch pushed all the way in, that it wears out the throwout bearing faster.

I had a lengthy discussion about this with one of our 914World member and a 914 guru of the highest Grand Master level (Mugsy). He convinced me that it is fine to idle at a stop light with the car in gear and clutch pushed in. So, that's what I usually do. Every once in awhile it's tough to get the car in 1st, and I don't want some F150 riding over me when the light turns green and I'm on an easter egg gear hunt.

Yesterday I was driving a friend's '71 911, and he started giving me crap for not putting into neutral at lights (Mugsy, you guys got the motor sounding great!).

Just thought it would be interesting to solicit the group and see what your thoughts are on this topic.

[era vulgaris]

I'd heard something similar, except that the wear was on the crank bearings. Without the pressure of the clutch against the flywheel, it allows for lateral movement in the crankshaft which can increase end play. It's also why you shouldn't start or stop the engine with the clutch pedal depressed.

I used to own a TR6 and I know that was a well documented issue among the Triumph community with the crank bearings on that car. EVERY Triumph owner I talked to said "neutral at lights, neutral when you start and stop the engine". I've heard similar things from other people in regards to type 1's and type 4's.

Obviously I'm no expert. It'd be nice for one to weigh in on this issue. I also keep an eye out for the cross street light turning yellow, so that I have a few seconds to get into gear if I need it. But I do occasionally have those instances at a light where the car won't go into 1st, and it feels like the guy behind me wants to run me over.

[Chris914n6]

I'd heard something similar, except that the wear was on the crank bearings. Without the pressure of the clutch against the flywheel, it allows for lateral movement in the crankshaft which can increase end play. It's also why you shouldn't start or stop the engine with the clutch pedal depressed.

No merit whatsoever. Since sometime in the 80s all manual trans cars have a kill switch to prevent one from starting the car without having the clutch released.

Leaving the clutch engaged adds main shaft rotation and cold thick gear oil to the starter load and is something else for the engine to overcome to run. Another reason not to.

I've been driving stick for 2 decades, I get my foot off the pedal as soon as possible as it puts an unnatural force on the knee joint.

[era vulgaris]

I'd heard something similar, except that the wear was on the crank bearings. Without the pressure of the clutch against the flywheel, it allows for lateral movement in the crankshaft which can increase end play. It's also why you shouldn't start or stop the engine with the clutch pedal depressed.

No merit whatsoever. Since sometime in the 80s all manual trans cars have a kill switch to prevent one from starting the car without having the clutch released.

Leaving the clutch engaged adds main shaft rotation and cold thick gear oil to the starter load and is something else for the engine to overcome to run. Another reason not to.

I've been driving stick for 2 decades, I get my foot off the pedal as soon as possible as it puts an unnatural force on the knee joint.

European manuals didn't have the interlock switch until the last few years. I've never owned a car with a clutch interlock switch. From what I understand they were added more to prevent lawsuits from dumb people not checking if the car is in neutral before starting.
Maybe modern cars have thrust washers that can withstand that kind of wear, but here's a read regarding Triumphs. Specifically point #4:
http://www.britishcarweek.org/tr6_3.html
There's a similar attitude in the ACVW community. Wear through those thrust washers and the end play will get to the point that the crank, crank bearings, and block (or case, in our case!) can sustain serious damage.