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> Ben's 914 TURBO Official World Premier, 'cuz it didn't blowd up.
airsix
post Sep 13 2004, 01:04 AM
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Ok, so it isn't as cool as Chapman's 914-6 Turbo 3.0, but it's a turbo 914 all the same. Ladys and Gentlemen, at about 10:00 PST I got boost and there was much rejoicing. I took the car out, filled it with premium, tuned it with the laptop a little to make sure it got plenty of fuel under boost, and the mission was a sucess. Boost starts to come on at ~2,700rpm and is going full-steam by 3,500rpm.

I stand (ok, sit) here before you my brothers to declare that yes indeed, you can turbo a 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif)

Details:

Engine: '73 1.7, stock internals
EFI ECU: Perfect Power MIC3 (Cost ~$500 to get on the car and running 3 years ago)
Misc EFI stuff: Subaru 1.8T injectors, Holly throttle body off a 3.0 Chrysler, BMW 5xx fuel pump, foam motorcycle aircleaner (temporary)
Turbo: IHI off 1.8L Subaru (including wastegate)
Misc Turbo stuff: Bosch blow-off valve (for a Saab I think). Cheap. Plastic. Works great.
Total cost to add turbo: $175 (EFI was already on the car. Use Megasquirt+turbo and you can do this for <$400 easy)

I tried to modify my fuel pressure regulator with a boost-reference port like the in the dune-buggy.com article but I broke off a wire guage drill bit about 1.5" deep into the bolt. Dang. Only had about a quarter-inch to go too. So I just bolted it back on the car and set the fuel pressure at the 30psi I have the ECU turned for. I tried to crank up the injector pulse width under boost to compensate, but they hit 100% duty cycle at 5,000rpm because at that point they only have 20psi effective pressure (because there's 10lb of boost by that point). So I'm keeping it under 5k rpm until I get a rising-rate pressure regulator. The wideband O2 says mixtures are just fine below that point. I estimate I'm getting 110hp (That's not a WAG. I really did the math) which doesn't sound like much but is sure better than the 80hp I had before. I would still like to add an intercooler which could put it in the neighborhood of 130hp without getting too boost-happy. Even as it is now I would say it's 100% more fun to drive. I'm really happy about it. I'll get the pressure regulator issue squared away so I can run it up to 6k and I think it'll keep me happy for quite a while.

Rick said "This thread is worthless without pictures" so here's the best I could do. If you missed the earlier thread I'll throw in one of the earlier pics too. I tried to make a video but all you hear is wind noice and the blow-off valve between shifts.
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andys
post Sep 17 2004, 10:42 AM
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QUOTE(lapuwali @ Sep 16 2004, 04:18 PM)

Older OEM turbo engines often had low CR as a conservative safety measure. It allowed an idiot owner to put regular gas in the car and not kill the engine completely, just cause enough knock to remind them not to do that again. It also allowed the car to be run at very high ambient temps with the AC on while driving up a steep grade, the worst possible combination. With modern engine controls, spark timing can be retarded and boost regulated more effectively to keep cylinder pressures down while still having a high CR. This kind of thing was hard to do in the 80s, and pretty much impossible in the 70s, so early turbo cars just ran low CR. With a knock sensor, you can control knock pretty well and keep CR and boost relatively high, and still allow an idiot owner to put in a tank of regular on a 100 degree day while getting ready to drive west out of Denver and keep the engine safe by just disabling most of the boost. It's the advent of these electronics that are allowing turbos to reappear in OEM apps after they nearly vanished for awhile. Modern systems are now so good that turbo lag is nearly gone completely, and it's often hard to tell the turbo is there at all.


Addition to the history:

The '63 and up (not exactly sure of the start date, but that should be close) Corvair Corsa had only a pressure retard diaphram on a Delco mechanical distributor. 6 degrees retard is what I recall. Carburetion was a side draught Rochester single barrel ahead of the turbo. No waste gate. CR was I believe 8:1 with open chamber heads, and a nitrided crank;the later Corsa's were making 180HP. This, on a '60's vintage air cooled motor. They were fast with a few easy mod's.....'65 Corsa with wrapped exhaust, and a two barrel down draught carb on an ICO manifold, and this thing was as fast as an stock early Z28. Ran El Mirage at 131MPH in a standing start one mile run; that was in '68 or '69.

The '63 Olds Jetfire had an aluminum 215 cu. in. 215HP V8, 10.25:1 CR, and 8 lbs boost. It too had a Rochester side draught carb ahead of the turbo, but with an elaborate alcohol injection system. Dash pot on the trottle plate kept it from snapping shut under declleration to keep from pulling down the turbo and avoiding pulling oil through the carbon seal on the impeller shaft. Featured a water cooled impeller housing, and a differential pressure waste gate. It was manufactured by Air Research. I ran one of these set up's on a six cylinder '69 American. A friend owned the Jetfire, and it was really quick in it's day (it was what was considered at the time, a compact car). Had AC, no knock sensors, no electronic boost or timing controls, and no detonation.

Lots of other turbo stories, but this will do for now.

Andy
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airsix   Ben's 914 TURBO Official World Premier   Sep 13 2004, 01:04 AM
airsix   Ok, here's the one some of you already saw - t...   Sep 13 2004, 01:06 AM
airsix   Here's the best shot I could get of it on the ...   Sep 13 2004, 01:09 AM
redshift   :trophy: YES! Good job! I'd do that....   Sep 13 2004, 01:23 AM
airsix   ...   Sep 13 2004, 01:44 AM
SpecialK   Congratulations Ben! :beer1: Nice fab work t...   Sep 13 2004, 01:58 AM
iamchappy   Great work, you have seen the light. Turbo on brot...   Sep 13 2004, 02:20 AM
ejm   Nice job.. Welcome to the club :beer2:   Sep 13 2004, 04:35 AM
Evill Ed     Sep 13 2004, 05:23 AM
Racer Chris   Good job Ben! :clap:   Sep 13 2004, 05:44 AM
nein14   :trophy: Congradulations!!! from one ...   Sep 13 2004, 07:32 AM
airsix  
  Sep 13 2004, 09:02 AM
fiid   NICE JOB!!!! Serious Kudos to you...   Sep 13 2004, 09:50 AM
Root_Werks   Couple of buddies of mine and I have thought about...   Sep 13 2004, 10:14 AM
airsix     Sep 13 2004, 12:04 PM
airsix     Sep 13 2004, 12:22 PM
red914   Ben, that thing looks awesome! any chance of ...   Sep 13 2004, 12:59 PM
Root_Werks   I agree with Shane, if you come on over to the wes...   Sep 13 2004, 01:25 PM
airsix   You guys are great. Thanks for all the comments. ...   Sep 13 2004, 02:21 PM
airsix     Sep 13 2004, 02:27 PM
Eddie914  
In what part of Eastern Washington State do you li...   Sep 13 2004, 02:46 PM
TimT   Kewl!! nice job Ben....You may want to ru...   Sep 13 2004, 03:11 PM
andys     Sep 13 2004, 03:42 PM
airsix   ...   Sep 13 2004, 04:15 PM
Andyrew   I want to see that intake setup!!! As...   Sep 13 2004, 04:25 PM
airsix   <...   Sep 13 2004, 05:30 PM
Brando   Next up, twin turbo? Run a turbo off of each side...   Sep 13 2004, 05:36 PM
Gint   Nice goin Ben! Ever going to dyno it?   Sep 13 2004, 06:15 PM
rick 918-S   That's what I'm talking about! :trophy...   Sep 13 2004, 09:29 PM
echocanyons   Damn fine work! :beer2:   Sep 13 2004, 10:15 PM
Jake Raby   The one big key is that you kept it a 1.7 Every T...   Sep 13 2004, 10:19 PM
Britain Smith     Sep 14 2004, 11:43 AM
nein14   HI Ed Your right, my mistake I was referring to o...   Sep 14 2004, 12:25 PM
Jake Raby   Nickies solve the sealing issues- period. Any size...   Sep 14 2004, 02:29 PM
jkeyzer   I was just wondering, is it really ok to run a wat...   Sep 14 2004, 02:32 PM
lapuwali  
QUOTE
  Sep 14 2004, 02:49 PM
Evill Ed   <...   Sep 14 2004, 03:22 PM
ArtechnikA     Sep 14 2004, 04:22 PM
airsix   UPDATE: Well, I drove it to work today. I'm r...   Sep 15 2004, 02:11 AM
Evill Ed     Sep 15 2004, 05:15 AM
Mark Henry   Congrats Ben, nice job! :trophy: Are you usi...   Sep 15 2004, 06:05 AM
iamchappy   Ben, have you considered a 5th injector ( cold sta...   Sep 15 2004, 06:35 AM
airsix   MORE UPDATES: Wow, thanks for all the great tips ...   Sep 16 2004, 12:52 AM
iamchappy   Turbo 914's are way to much fun. The air has b...   Sep 16 2004, 06:43 AM
airsix     Sep 16 2004, 12:15 PM
lapuwali   How much boost are you running? I thought you...   Sep 16 2004, 12:20 PM
airsix   ...   Sep 16 2004, 01:52 PM
cha914   UUUUMMMM... 1.62100 bar = 23.5106173 pounds per s...   Sep 16 2004, 02:09 PM
airsix     Sep 16 2004, 02:27 PM
lapuwali   MAP is 1.6 bar, not "boost". You're running ...   Sep 16 2004, 02:55 PM
aufaber   Wow, great job! You probably want to loose th...   Sep 16 2004, 02:56 PM
airsix   Hi Aaron! Actually I've got a real oil-lin...   Sep 16 2004, 03:22 PM
airsix   ...   Sep 16 2004, 05:25 PM
jkeyzer   What is the effect of compression ratio on the max...   Sep 16 2004, 05:58 PM
ArtechnikA   <...   Sep 16 2004, 06:07 PM
airsix   <...   Sep 16 2004, 06:15 PM
lapuwali   It's not really the compression ratio that...   Sep 16 2004, 06:18 PM
Mr_Chu   Before I comitted to a 6 conversion for my car.. i...   Sep 16 2004, 08:14 PM
iamchappy   3.0 - 6 Turbo, if you still choose to steer in tha...   Sep 16 2004, 08:51 PM
Andyrew   Theres no substitute for Cubic inches except force...   Sep 16 2004, 09:23 PM
airsix   James, that was some great info about turbo applic...   Sep 16 2004, 11:04 PM
redshift   ...   Sep 16 2004, 11:49 PM
Andyrew   Intercooled and water injected. Intercooler will ...   Sep 17 2004, 12:26 AM
lapuwali   I'd do an intercooler first, and just lay it a...   Sep 17 2004, 08:37 AM
andys   ...   Sep 17 2004, 10:42 AM
lapuwali  
QUOTE
  Sep 17 2004, 11:08 AM
andys   Well, the quality of the gas is certainly a factor...   Sep 17 2004, 12:16 PM
aufaber     Sep 17 2004, 06:44 PM
ArtechnikA   <...   Sep 18 2004, 04:01 AM
airsix   UPDATE: I got mixture and advance angle squared aw...   Sep 18 2004, 09:48 PM
Mueller   :worship: congrats Ben....I'm jealous.. ac...   Sep 19 2004, 09:06 AM
airsix   Hey Mike, Hope you had a nice vacation. Don't ...   Sep 20 2004, 09:15 AM
Mueller   the 911 is an okay daily driver, but I "really" mi...   Sep 20 2004, 02:04 PM
airsix   Wow, great info Sammy! Mike, I forgot to warn...   Sep 20 2004, 02:56 PM
lapuwali  
QUOTE
  Sep 20 2004, 03:22 PM
Mueller   Ben, yea, I've seen the copper heatsink in th...   Sep 20 2004, 03:42 PM
lapuwali   I meant the FETs powering the injectors, which sho...   Sep 20 2004, 03:59 PM
airsix   <...   Sep 20 2004, 09:23 PM
Mueller   Hey Ben...it's me again asking questions :) w...   Nov 11 2004, 05:50 PM
airsix   <...   Nov 11 2004, 08:36 PM
Mueller   when you ran your LM-1 for setting up your tables,...   Nov 11 2004, 08:42 PM
airsix   Definitely not the man, but thanks. When tuning wi...   Nov 11 2004, 10:45 PM
Brad Smith   ...   Nov 12 2004, 09:17 AM
soloracer   I've seen video clips of that mini van. Prett...   Nov 12 2004, 11:04 AM
Brad Smith   Nice pic... makes me feel like singing... "I like...   Nov 12 2004, 11:36 AM
airsix   <...   Apr 15 2005, 09:33 PM


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