Roll Bar in a street car discussion Options

[Scott S]

Hi All. I posted this over on Pelican, thought it might be relevant here too.

I know there have been many discussions on the safety putting a roll bar/cage in a street driven car. I am not a racer, so it really didn't pertain to me at all. However, yesterday I saw first hand the injuries that can occur.

16 year old girl driving her dads Miata with him in the passenger seat. There is speculation that she was driving on her permit, practicing for her drivers license. She was driving at a slow speed, simply making a right hand turn on to a side street. She clipped the curb - something we all have done. Curb was tall enough that it shook the car pretty good (again, speculation, but knowing the corner I would guess a wheel would have been bent and the car knocked out of alignment ).

Both are in the hospital with concussions, one of them needed several stiches from injuries caused by their heads impacting the roll bar.

I don't know if the dad autocrossed the car or what, or if the bar was just for looks. I do know the car had stock seat belts.

Scary stuff.

[DBCooper]

But I never said that, Andy. Did you read the first post in this thread? Bumped a curb and two people in the hospital? That's not a big enough deal? Like I said, do whatever you want, but people do get hurt so don't make that choice without at least knowing the issues. That's not fair? You think it's better to not talk about it at all?

[SirAndy]

But I never said that, Andy. Did you read the first post in this thread? Bumped a curb and two people in the hospital? That's not a big enough deal?

But that wasn't in a 914 and we don't know how that cage was build and how far their heads were from the cage and if it was padded.

That's A LOT of unknowns to make such a blanket statement!


What i am telling you is that in my car my head is no closer to my (padded) roll bar than it is to (covered) solid metal in my daily driver sedan.

I still have no idea why you insist that one somehow is going to kill me while the other one is perfectly acceptable?
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[DBCooper]

But that wasn't in a 914 and we don't know how that cage was build and how far their heads were from the cage and if it was padded.

That's A LOT of unknowns to make such a blanket statement!

Not really. Without a roll bar there was nothing there for their heads to hit. They added a bar TO THE SAME CAR, there was then something for their head to hit and they hit their heads. IN THE SAME CAR. They changed the car and the change made it less safe.

What i am telling you is that in my car my head is no closer to my (padded) roll bar than it is to (covered) solid metal in my daily driver sedan.

Yes, you did say that, but again, the comparison I've made has been in the SAME car. Before adding a bar (in any car) there's clearance, adding the bar reduces the clearance IN THAT SAME CAR, so your head can then hit where it wouldn't have before IN THAT SAME CAR. It's had a hazzard added so in that aspect is less safe than it was before.

I still have no idea why you insist that one somehow is going to kill me while the other one is perfectly acceptable?
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I never said that even once, so certainly never insisted. From the beginning I've said that adding a bar or cage changes and reduces the clearance IN THE SAME CAR. Your other car can have airbags, be the Queen Mary or a blimp, it's irrelevant because I'm talking about the addition of a bar/cage changing the configuration IN THAT SAME CAR.

Look, you don't get anything for free. A roll cage can make your car stiffer, may protect better from being t-boned, from rollover and so on. But to get something you have to give up something, and that something is contact with your head. If that works for you, great, as long as you're aware of it and accept it it's not a problem, but it's not rational to pretend that it doesn't exist.

[stugray]

Not really. Without a roll bar there was nothing there for their heads to hit. They added a bar TO THE SAME CAR, there was then something for their head to hit and they hit their heads. IN THE SAME CAR. They changed the car and the change made it less safe.

You are generalizing so much that you miss the fact that a roll bar is a SAFETY DEVICE in the first place.

The Same argument could be made about a fire extinguisher: "In an accident a fire extinguisher could come out of it's hold-down bracket and hit you in the head, therefore having a fire extinguisher makes the car less safe"

I occasionally take my car on public roads with the cage. It has racing seats and 6-point harnesses. The applicable tubes have SFI padding. Really, for what I do the main worry is a high-speed crash or roll, whether on track or on road, where the entire car and its occupants are in grave jeopardy. Therefore I'd rather have the cage's protection even with some small added risk of probs in a low-speed incident.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Exactly! I will trade the slim change of hitting my head against rollover protection any day. I actually HAVE rolled a car before.
I have never clipped a curb and nearly snapped my head off.

In fact could one make the argument that if the rollbar had not been there to stop their heads, both passengers MIGHT have had more serious neck injuries. You don't know do you?