Concours judging for preservation class Options

[22truckie]

Ok. At the risk of offending I have a question. I plan on submitting my unrestored 914 in the preservation class for judging at the national Porsche Parade in Spokane WA next year ( live in the state). I was advised by a very helpful member of this site about how the judging goes. He stated in preservation class judging, if you have factory paint and there are some runs in it , from the factory, that I needed to wet sand those down or I would get deducted. I also noted to him that on my car there were areas where the person at the factory who applied the adhesive for the weather stripping was a little over jelious and got some brush strokes outside the weather stripping. He also stated those would probably need to be removed to prevent point deduction. He then stated he was a concours judge for 914's. Now I have entered major concours shows in preservation classes and placed and never heard anything along those lines. I guess my question is this : If you are not judging on how the car was made exactly from the factory with no alterations or modifications at all, including, and especially, factory imperfections. Then what exactly are you preserving? How the car was made at the factory or how you wish the car looked from the factory. I know I am a new member but I am a long term unrestored, untouched addict who works hard at having people understand how important these treasures really are. Hope this spurs some good posts. Again no offense was ment by this post. I very much appreciate the help the judge was trying to give me

[Tom_T]

Okay 22truckie,

FYI & that of others reading, I've excerpted the 2016 Parade Concours PCR for "Preservation Group" below, but make sure to download that whole document, in case I missed anything, & to get their other relevant forms, charts, Protest info./rules, etc. - then do the same thing next year for the 2017 Final Rules -& you can get an early heads-up on the new coming proposed rule changes early in 2017 or late 2016 (I think date-wise) - but you'll have to do a search on the PCA web site to get to it, as I did to get the link in my other post above with the link to the 2016 rules.

One difference between our Zone 8 rules & judging procedures, & those at Parade of which I was reminded in doing this excerpt - is that our judges are each assigned a separate area to judge on their own without conferring with the other judges (except to ask the team head judge a question, & we do change areas from show to show for variety).

Whereas, the Parade Judges do so as a team on each area & are asked to confer - so you've got more eyes on your car in all areas.

Note that our Zone 8 doesn't judge undercarriage (or "Chassis" below) for the Unrestored Division, but does do so for our Full Concours Division, as does Parade in the full set of rules (we both split it for half of the chassis/undercarriage - with & without engine to each judge).

While there are no direct answers to your OP questions per se in the material below, this will get you started - plus on the score sheets & originality documentation sheets & collection docs from the full version's appendix. You'll really just have to get with an experienced Parade judge on Preservation Group to the in's & out's of their judging guidelines/etc. docs., training & interpretation, etc. of same.

My notations at beginning, end & one place inside the excerpts below are identified by italics, plus square brackets [] for the inner one.

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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Excerpted from:
2016 PORSCHE CLUB OF AMERICA COMPETITION RULES

C-2.2. Preservation Group
The grouping “preservation” implies that the entered
Porsche has been maintained in its original condition,
with evidence that the automobile has been reasonably
used (driven) and not simply stored. The Preservation
Group criteria includes overall presentation, originality
and utilization. It implies that the entered Porsche has
most, if not all, of its original parts and surfaces (at least
75% original factory applied top-side exterior paint, at
least 75% original upholstery and at least 75% original
carpet). Should the automobile show with less than 75%,
(more likely less than 60%), the judge may ask the entrant
for further explanation and/or more information. The
engine and transaxle must be original with no visible
upgrades. Non-standard reproduction parts are subject
to demerits (if the judge can tell the part is a reproduction,
by definition, it is non-standard).

Reference Judging Standards C-5.1.(b/b.1) for further
class information.

Classes for Preservation Group

All entrants in this group are designated “Full.” All classes
are identified with the suffix “F” following each class
number. Classes are created from the following classifications,
which include Limited Production models where
applicable.

PS01F 356
PS02F 914/4 & 914/6
PS03F 911/912 (1965-1973)
PS04F 911/912 (1974-1989; 911/912)
PS05F 911 (1989-1998; 964/993)
PS08F 924, 944, 968, 928 (1977-1995)

Note: classes are for automobiles regardless of mileage;
judging will adjust for mileage.

All automobiles entered in the Preservation Group will
compete using a complete six-component inspection and
will be eligible for the “PCA Preservation” group award.
The Kardex (build data sheet), Certificate of Authenticity
or original Monroney Label (window sticker) for automobiles
in the Preservation Group is required and will be
examined by the judges. See Appendix III for instructions
for obtaining the build data for your Porsche and samples
of acceptable versions of the various documents. Other
documents may be used as proof of authenticity if, in the
opinion of the judges, such documentation substantiates
the automobile’s authenticity. Automobiles without such
documentation can be shown but will not be judged. It is
recommended that any documented history of the automobile
that the owner might have, including date of
acquisition, should be available in case any questions that
may arise during judging.

C-5. JUDGING
All entrants will present their car completely closed. After
completion of and an initional inspection of the exterior,
the Chief Judge (exterior judge) will request that the
entrant fully open all areas , including but not limited to
doors, engine cover and the storage compartment.
For all groups, no demerits shall be given for properly
applied factory recall modifications (the burden of proof
of proper application is upon the entrant), or for removal
of transportation (e.g. factory to distributor/dealer) protection.
Non-original equipment safety items added to
the automobile (e.g. aftermarket seat belts, fire extinguisher)
shall not be judged.

(b) Preservation Group-Emphasis is on preservation of
the automobile, it is to be given for maintained in the
original condition. Judging of automobiles in this
group will take into account the overall "utilization"
of the Porsche as intended by the Porsche factory.
Overall "utilization” will consider age of the car and
total millage within each class. Ownership and
preservation of an automobile with reasonable
mileage shall be considered superior to an automobile
simply “stored” to avoid usual wear encountered
from normal use. Proof of authenticity such as
Kardex (build data sheet), Certificate of Authenticity
or original Monroney Label (window sticker) is
required for the automobile to be judged and will be
examined by the judges. Other documentation may
be used as proof of authenticity if, in the opinion of
the judges, such documentation substantiates the
automobile’s authenticity. In the case of two automobiles
being equal in the opinion of the judges, length
of ownership will be considered. The judges rating
for the chassis (if judging is requested) will not be
altered due to the presence of fresh road dirt or signs
of recent use.

C-5.1.1. Judges. Each automobile will be inspected by a
team of judges, approved by the PCR Committee. Judges,
including the Head Judge, will have had experience on a
national or multi-regional level, or the equivalent, as a
judge and/or entrant.

C-5.1.2. Inspection of Automobiles

(b) Preservation Group - The entrant may volunteer to
remove caps, lids, covers for inspection by the judges,
provided no tools are required unless needed to gain
specific access to the spare tire or engine compartment.
(The judge may not request such items be
removed, nor remove any item from the automobile.)
For Preservation Group, the following six components
may be judged:
1. Kardex/ Certificate of Authenticity (COA), utilization
and accompanying documentation (data
plate, paint plate. ect,).
2. Exterior
3. Interior
4. Engine
5. Storage
6. Chassis

C-5.2. Judging Procedures
The judging procedures are to be described on information
sheets provided to Concours entrants at on site
Parade check-in.

C-5.2.1. Removal of Caps/Covers/Lids

C-5.2.1.2. Preservation Group. The entrant may volunteer
to remove caps, lids, and covers for inspection by the
judges, provided no tools are required. (The judge may
not request such items be removed, nor remove any item
from the automobile.)

C-5.2.2. Judging Sequence

C-5.2.2.2. Preservation Group. The Preservation Group
judging process will be primarily a “hands-off” process
employing a three or five (based on availability of qualified
judges) person team per division, judging each automobile
as a focused team, with all judges examining each
judging component of each automobile. The same team
will judge all automobiles in a given division except where
divisions are split or when precluded by time limits.

Example: all judges will, as a team, examine the exterior
fit, finish, trim, etc., with discussion as necessary. Then, as
a team, they will examine the interior, then the engine,
etc., discussing each particular component of the automobile
with other judges as necessary during the examination.

The judging time will vary, with a minimum and a maximum
time period (based on number of entrants), to
judge each automobile. Interaction with the owner (initiated
by and terminated by the Team Chief Judge) and
examination of the automobile’s documentation are integral
parts of the Preservation Group judging process. The
time taken for interaction with the owner and for examining
the documentation is not to be considered part of
the judging time.

C-5.2.2.3. Judging Procedure for Split Classes. When more
than one team of judges will be required, due to the large
number of entries in a given class, the following procedure
will be implemented. The class shall be split
amongst the different judging teams. The “best” entries
from each portion of the split will be re-judged by a new
team of judges that may be composed of judges from each
of the previous teams and/or new judges. (Only the second
set of scoring sheets will be given to the re-judged
entrants.) The number of “best” entries from each portion
of the split class should be equal to half the number
of trophies to be distributed (See G-11.1., Class Awards
(e.g., if the total number of entries in the class is 14, six
trophies will be awarded; therefore, three entries from
each portion of the split class will be re-judged).

C-5.2.3. Last Minute Preparations. The preparations to be
allowed on the display site must be determined and rules
must be formulated for inclusion in the Parade supplementary
regulations. The supplementary regulations
shall also include instructions regarding the removal of
cleaning paraphernalia and spare parts from the display
area, including any related time limitations and the identification
of any storage area, if provided, for contestants
who do not have a safe place to store such items.

C-6. SCORING

C-6.1. Forms

Entrants are responsible for bringing the concours forms
furnished at the on site Parade check-in to the event. The
forms will include a display card, a Master Score Sheet,
and detailed score sheets. An announcer’s card may also
be provided. Entrants should complete all applicable portions
of the forms before judging begins. Official score
sheets, or reasonable copies there of, shall be returned to
each entrant. Samples of the score sheets that must be
used are in Appendix IV.

C-6.2. Tied Scores
[Note that Preparation Group is not identified]
(Restoration Group/Preparation
Group)
Tied scores will be broken by comparing the tied automobile’s
scores for each of the following areas:
(1) Highest of raw exterior score
(2) Highest of raw interior score
(3) Highest of raw engine score
(4) Highest of raw storage score
(5) Highest of raw chassis front score
(full Concours only)
(6) Highest of raw chassis rear score
(full Concours only)
Scores for each of the judging areas will be compared in
the order listed above. The first automobile having the
highest score on the first judging area at which the scores
differ will be awarded the higher position. If a tie still
remains, duplicate awards will given.

C-6.3. Posting of Scores

Concours scores shall be posted at the event site within
one hour after all properly completed score sheets for
each class has been received by Scoring. Copies of official
score sheets shall be returned only to the entrant at time
of posting. The results of the judging shall not be disclosed
by the organizers and/or judges to any other competitor.
The Group Award judging will begin after all class competition
scores are posted, copies of each entrant’s score
sheets have been returned and after completion of the
protest period. (See G-9.4. “Protests.”)

//// end of Excerpts