Porsche building cars without a VIN? (911), 914s also, maybe? Options

[74ravenna]

Hi all,

Last week a coworker sent me a photo of a 911 without a VIN.
Its a factory built race car that the owner bought new around 1970 (i think) and put the car away, never really drove it i guess.
To look at the photo you'd think it was a nut and bolt restoration, but its all original!

So, did Porsche actually build cars without a VIN in situations like this?
I can't help but think that they had to put some sort of numbers/ID on it.

Did they build any 914s in this same manner?

Steve

[ConeDodger]

If he really wants a VIN there's this guy in Atlanta... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[Tom_T]

If he really wants a VIN there's this guy in Atlanta... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Again, a licensed shop in most states can reassign a VIN to a BIW or other body by following that state's legal process for same. I don't know GA law, but I do know that they can do it in CA. If I'm guessing "the guy you know" then they are a licensed shop in GA since 1978. .... just to keep the discussion on the legality of dealers & licensed shops doing VIN reassignments/repairs/rebuilds clear. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Back in the `70's I knew a guy who had a bad accident in his brand new 911S which he loved, who had Chick Iverson Porsche in Newport Beach do a rebuild with a BIW at a cost all in equal to almost what the car was worth. IIRC he had to pay his deductible & then some, but I don't know what sort of title he ended up with (normal, rebuilt, salvage, or ??).

PS - I also had a HS classmate a year ahead of me who wrecked his `69 911S (Grad present for Class of 69 - rich kid), who simply had a shop transplant his 911S's drivetran, suspension/etc. into a old `59 Splitty Van for the ultimate "Sleeper" painted in partial gray primer. He used to recruit a few of us to sit in the back seat so he could pop wheelies in the school parking lot, & take on all comers at red light drags, he being a big guy in the front seat putting too much weight forward! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif)

I was also talking with one of our OCR 911 aficionados at our Concours last month about Andy T's/SoCalAndy total resurrection & BIWs etc., & he said that there was one of Jerry Seinfeld's famous 911s, which before he bought it was sent to Porsche Classic in Germany for a restoration & it had it's original body swapped for a BIW according to a factory employee he knew who told him about it.

His point revolved around whether that car (a #1 or #2 off the line) is really still an original car - vs. what Andy did to resurrect his original body with a large percentage of new sheet metal & a similar massive reconstruction of another member's 356 pre-A. Sorry, I don't recall the exact car - it was a tail-dragger after all! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

All of this BIW discussion still doesn't answer whether this car the OP asked about is real without a VIN though.

The fact that Rory G. posted that all of the 911Rs are accounted for & had VINs, it makes me wonder more about this one, but not impossible to find another 911R or similar race/purpose built/customer request car was done. But it's going to be a ton of time to research it out if the OO or seller doesn't have paperwork!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

[ConeDodger]

If he really wants a VIN there's this guy in Atlanta... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Again, a licensed shop in most states can reassign a VIN to a BIW or other body by following that state's legal process for same. I don't know GA law, but I do know that they can do it in CA. If I'm guessing "the guy you know" then they are a licensed shop in GA since 1978. .... just to keep the discussion on the legality of dealers & licensed shops doing VIN reassignments/repairs/rebuilds clear. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Back in the `70's I knew a guy who had a bad accident in his brand new 911S which he loved, who had Chick Iverson Porsche in Newport Beach do a rebuild with a BIW at a cost all in equal to almost what the car was worth. IIRC he had to pay his deductible & then some, but I don't know what sort of title he ended up with (normal, rebuilt, salvage, or ??).

PS - I also had a HS classmate a year ahead of me who wrecked his `69 911S (Grad present for Class of 69 - rich kid), who simply had a shop transplant his 911S's drivetran, suspension/etc. into a old `59 Splitty Van for the ultimate "Sleeper" painted in partial gray primer. He used to recruit a few of us to sit in the back seat so he could pop wheelies in the school parking lot, & take on all comers at red light drags, he being a big guy in the front seat putting too much weight forward! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif)

I was also talking with one of our OCR 911 aficionados at our Concours last month about Andy T's/SoCalAndy total resurrection & BIWs etc., & he said that there was one of Jerry Seinfeld's famous 911s, which before he bought it was sent to Porsche Classic in Germany for a restoration & it had it's original body swapped for a BIW according to a factory employee he knew who told him about it.

His point revolved around whether that car (a #1 or #2 off the line) is really still an original car - vs. what Andy did to resurrect his original body with a large percentage of new sheet metal & a similar massive reconstruction of another member's 356 pre-A. Sorry, I don't recall the exact car - it was a tail-dragger after all! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

All of this BIW discussion still doesn't answer whether this car the OP asked about is real without a VIN though.

The fact that Rory G. posted that all of the 911Rs are accounted for & had VINs, it makes me wonder more about this one, but not impossible to find another 911R or similar race/purpose built/customer request car was done. But it's going to be a ton of time to research it out if the OO or seller doesn't have paperwork!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

I'm talking about the guy who sells VIN numbers on eBay. That's legal too, but the only problem is the end user's purpose... he knows the end user's purpose and that is promoting counterfeit 914-6 production.

[Tom_T]

I'm talking about the guy who sells VIN numbers on eBay. That's legal too, but the only problem is the end user's purpose... he knows the end user's purpose and that is promoting counterfeit 914-6 production.

I wasn't aware that selling "bare VINs" was legal, but then haven't had time to research it due to other BS going on right now with my Biz office equipment. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

However, if something is legal to sell & sold legally by the seller, then later another person misuses them illegally & fraudulently - then I say the fault lies with the latter.

But then, I'm not sure it's legal to sell cut out VIN stampings & plates is legal, or if it were in past days.

At this point I'm only sure about the legality of & existence of a few BIW or "donor body" swaps done in a legal process per US DOT & States' DMV laws.

PS - this article about VIN Transfers/Sales etc. linked in LarryM's post above -
http://www.vintageautomotive.net/?p=356

.... & this one on Rebodies linked within that article -
http://www.vintageautomotive.net/?p=242

.... are both good articles by a PA attorney, & worth reading as a starting point on both VIN transfers & Rebodies.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////