Porsche building cars without a VIN? (911), 914s also, maybe? Options

[74ravenna]

Hi all,

Last week a coworker sent me a photo of a 911 without a VIN.
Its a factory built race car that the owner bought new around 1970 (i think) and put the car away, never really drove it i guess.
To look at the photo you'd think it was a nut and bolt restoration, but its all original!

So, did Porsche actually build cars without a VIN in situations like this?
I can't help but think that they had to put some sort of numbers/ID on it.

Did they build any 914s in this same manner?

Steve

[gms]

I believe a “body in white” was just that, a body painted white. I don’t believe there was engine, transaxle, suspension or interior. This was a very popular way to make a 935 out of a 911. The serial numbers were like 000 00022 I believe this was the 22nd body from 1980.
I have heard of one such 914 body in white it replaced the rusted body of 914.043.0059

[Tom_T]

I believe a “body in white” was just that, a body painted white. I don’t believe there was engine, transaxle, suspension or interior. This was a very popular way to make a 935 out of a 911. The serial numbers were like 000 00022 I believe this was the 22nd body from 1980.
I have heard of one such 914 body in white it replaced the rusted body of 914.043.0059

When was that -6 body-in-white done Glen? I'd bet at least 15-20 years ago.

IIRC the body-in-white was only the body shell, & also lacked doors, F&R deck & engine lids, & a bunch of other parts to make a complete 914 etc.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

[gms]

I believe a “body in white” was just that, a body painted white. I don’t believe there was engine, transaxle, suspension or interior. This was a very popular way to make a 935 out of a 911. The serial numbers were like 000 00022 I believe this was the 22nd body from 1980.
I have heard of one such 914 body in white it replaced the rusted body of 914.043.0059

When was that -6 body-in-white done Glen? I'd bet at least 15-20 years ago.

IIRC the body-in-white was only the body shell, & also lacked doors, F&R deck & engine lids, & a bunch of other parts to make a complete 914 etc.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

I cannot say when the transformation (on #59) took place but I think it was about 10-15 years ago that I heard about it. I had pictures but I cannot find them. Another example was a GT3 that came into Kelly-Moss racing while I was helping out on a 914/6 restoration. The chassis was tweeked beyond repair so they bought a new body and transferred all the parts over to the new white body.

[lalee914]

I believe a “body in white” was just that, a body painted white. I don’t believe there was engine, transaxle, suspension or interior. This was a very popular way to make a 935 out of a 911. The serial numbers were like 000 00022 I believe this was the 22nd body from 1980.
I have heard of one such 914 body in white it replaced the rusted body of 914.043.0059

When was that -6 body-in-white done Glen? I'd bet at least 15-20 years ago.

IIRC the body-in-white was only the body shell, & also lacked doors, F&R deck & engine lids, & a bunch of other parts to make a complete 914 etc.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

I cannot say when the transformation (on #59) took place but I think it was about 10-15 years ago that I heard about it. I had pictures but I cannot find them. Another example was a GT3 that came into Kelly-Moss racing while I was helping out on a 914/6 restoration. The chassis was tweeked beyond repair so they bought a new body and transferred all the parts over to the new white body.

Hi Glenn,
According to an e-mail I have from 2004, 9140430059 was sold in 1986 with the replacement chassis. This is a small part of that e-mail.

14/01/1986 Transferred owner: Chris Duncan --> Heddell & Deeks
Chassis: *0310005*/9140-43-0059
Engine: 642-0251
Colour: L20E/Signal Orange

So the chassis swap had to occur 30+ years ago.

[gms]

Hi Glenn,
According to an e-mail I have from 2004, 9140430059 was sold in 1986 with the replacement chassis. This is a small part of that e-mail.

14/01/1986 Transferred owner: Chris Duncan --> Heddell & Deeks
Chassis: *0310005*/9140-43-0059
Engine: 642-0251
Colour: L20E/Signal Orange

So the chassis swap had to occur 30+ years ago.

There was a bit of a problem about this in the UK because someone bought 0059 and resurrected that rusted car so there was the new body with all the parts from 0059 and the real 0059 chassis. just remember in the mid-80's these were $10k cars so replacing the body was a better solution.

[larryM]

.... someone bought 0059 and resurrected that rusted car so there was the new body with all the parts from 0059 and the real 0059 chassis. just remember in the mid-80's these were $10k cars so replacing the body was a better solution.

yes - not worth much in the day, an overarching operative phrase in some of our memories - happened frequently & still does in the "old race cars" world;

we are talking about cars with under 10 yrs all-season road life in places where there is winter & salt on the roads - i owned a '67 911 in Iowa in 1971 that folded in half when you put the factory jack in the jack-point under the rocker - a 4yr old car!), & have seen plenty of similar 914s in the midwest - the 911 had spent it's short useful life as a daily driver in the Chicago-Milwaukee corridor

long before our current fetish with "originality" became vogue - they were just cars and they were fixed as necessary, or not... they were just cars, cheap, fun & temporary & often prone to rusting out well before their 10th anniversary

many of us are now happy to own an originally numbered & titled vintage car with a paper trail, no matter how many body parts, & engines, have been replaced with newer/bigger/better that never existed in 1970xx?

here's Classic Motorsports regarding judging at Amelia Concours:

" Originality is also much more elusive with classic race cars, since most were updated constantly during their racing careers. When a now-priceless original motor was damaged, it was quickly and unceremoniously replaced with another. When sponsors and owners came & went, iconic livery was simply painted over. All this change makes restoring and therefore judging one of these cars very difficult." ~ Tim Suddard.

... do note that Amelia now has a special class for classic race cars that are beneficiaries of 6-figure restorations - cuz they still cannot measure up to unrestored preserved originals that are 200% better than when they rolled off the line)

some yrs ago i helped a friend rescue a TransAm Dodge Dart once driven by famously reclusive Ron Grable - it had been wrecked, carved-on, welded-onto, extended, shortened, aero'd, & refitted so any times in it's "career" for various venues that it was unrecognizable - so - we found & b'ot an original Dart body in a Bay Area wrecking yard - paid $1000 iirc -- & started over - guess we'd call that a "rebody" - registering it for street was never an issue, the law was irrelevant -
www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1966/Riverside-1966-09-18-088a.jpg
www.historictransam.com/Drivers/GaryUnderwood67Dodge18.html

p.s. - we don't all live in California USA
(where, indeed, it is illegal to cut a vin plate out of a body or even remove a riveted or screwed-on plate)

(not to mention putting a non-oem motor into a post 1976 anything - which is why we CA guys all want pre-75 Porsches, etc & put newer/bigger/better engines in 'em))









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