OT: Dutch democracy compromised... Options

[Jeroen]

A truely sad day for all Dutch
Today movie maker, columnist and chain-smoker Theo van Gogh was murdered

He was known and feared for his strong critizism and his blunt and harsh statements that he spewed when ever he got the chance. Often shocking his "opponenents"
Van Gogh had a very stong opinion about the way muslims-funtamentalists suppress women and how they condem gays.

In an ultimate attempt to shut him up, he was brutally excecuted in Amsterdam this morning. He was shot 6 times and then a letter was pinned to his dead body with 2 knives

The killer was captured after a shoot-out with the police. He is an immigrant from Marocco and aparently a muslim-extremist.

Van Gogh paid the ultimate price for what he believed in the most: the freedom of speech

[dmenche914]

Ok we are in it now. We still have to win the "peace" It has not even been three years yet. Many iraqi's are glad we did what we did, and many know that as soon as they and us finish the job with the terrorists, and saddamists, we will be on our way. That is exactly why there have been no mass killings of our troop. Hell if even 20% of the Iraqi's truely hated us, we would be in a big mess, but we are not. Sure it is a mess, war is a mess, but it cleaned up a bigger problem. Saddam supported terror, and had the know-how, and will to make an atomic bomb. That threat is gone.
Give it time to settle the issues in iraq, hell we still have troops in Germany and Japan, after 60 years! Took until the 1960's to return Okinawa back to Japanese control, that was over 15 year after surrender.

So would we have rather have saddam in power, three more years of him fooling sanctions, with several western nations on the take from him. With the UN weapons inspectors leaving 300 tons of plastic explosives in iraq, which saddam had for the purpose of making an atomic bomb. Libyia would still be in the terror and bomb bussiness also, Libya renouncing terror and atomic bombs was a side benifit of us destroying saddam.

Now unless you kill them all, it is not to smart to "win" a war, and then get out of dodge, cause then you are seen as a destroyer, rather than a liberator, unless you kill them all, then there is no one to complain.

So four options when you know some really bad guys are supporting terror, and working on atomic weapons

1. Invade, and work with the civilians to set up a freedom loving nation.

2. Invade and kill the sadamists, stopping the bomb program (of course unless you rip up the entire nation, you may miss some important stuff, likely not even capturing saddam, and then leave them a big mess, just leave, no help in establishing freedom, or rebuilding. (allowing the terrorist to come in and rule, or saddam to come back)

3. Use the big stick, and kill them all, civilians, saddamists, terrorist, everyone, scorched earth, a wasteland, in fact take it over, and pump the oil, and kill any and all that might object from other nations.

4. Do nothing, except let the UN, and france pussy foot around with the likes of saddam, let the half assed muslim nuclear arms inspector play hide and seek.


Option 1 is what we choose

Option 2 is still open, we could just pull up and leave.

Option 3 is still possible, however we are so far winning the peace. Most iraqi civilians look forward to elections, and are glad saddam is gone, they are joining the fight against terrorist in their midst. So why change now and kill them all (with reprocussions from other arab nations, which woud cause use to kill them all also)

Option 4, too late to do nothing, yeah we could have waited for UN resolution #18, then #19, ..... however do you really believe saddam, and kadahfi would have come clean????

for oil, the price of gasoline, adjusted for inflation is not much differeent than 20 years ago!

So oil prices are high, we are guzzling it like crazy in SUV's, so demand is higher than ever here, along with more people. China is coming on big as an industrial nation, and is consuming much of the oil also. (to bad we encouraged modernization in china, and gave plenty of thechnology to them.) They are a competitor, have an evil non-freedom loving government, yet we have helped them, and can look to a future of problems with them. They have been useless in helping us stop N. korea. China is a seperate subject, but they are a growing danger to freedom.

We also choose not to drill in Alaska for oil. We choose higher prices verses drilling there.

So oil prices have a lot to do with things other than iraq, although iraq is a component. Could be also a bunch of arabs in opec wanted to affect the US election also.
Good thing we drive 914's rather than SUV's.

So alot of people bitch and mone about Bush and the war on terror, but I have heard few if any alternate solutions to the danger of bad evil governments that support terror, and want to make atomic bombs.

The saying that saddam at least kept control of his people, like hitler kept the trains on time is hopefully a joke, else it would be on of the most stupid ideas I have heard on this list. Ask any survivor of saddams torture, or one of hitlers concentration camp survivors, Maybe you have blonde hair and think that you would have been ok under hitler, i hope you were joking. i think we have exposed saddam for the monster he WAS (past tense emphisied)

By the way, America did not get spanked in our Revolution, we did the spanking. Vietnam was lost because we lost the will, maybe never had the will to truely win it. Sept 11 gave alot of Americans the will to take on evil. We also won a hell of alot wars, but none were clean, and all took time.