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> New 914 owner! Already dreaming of engine swaps..., What would you guys think about a 4A-GE blacktop in a 914?
betz
post Nov 6 2018, 04:07 PM
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A little background: I have 3 cars besides the 914: A stock '00 Boxster, a restored '86 E30 BMW with a 2.8L stroker M20, and a '06 Outback XT. All manual trans.

I found this 1972 914 1.7 on craigslist for $1600 and the main selling point to me was that most of the parts were there, it just seemed to need some basic TLC to get it running. Also, its a California car and not a total rust bucket. Also hasn't appeared to be in any major accidents. After pretty much finishing my E30 I've been itching for a new project... Ideally smog exempt.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-22593-1541542078.1.jpg)

The plan for the car is to get it running with the original type 4. The PO, who only had it for a few months, said he thinks it needs a fuel pump... turns out, the fuel pump wasn't even plugged in. So OF COURSE it's not running. He got it to start briefly with just starter fluid, so I'm thinking that's pretty much it. I'm going to bring it back to stock configuration on the D-jet, change out the oil and fuel, plug in the dang fuel pump in and I pretty much expect it to start up no problem.

From there, I will get into the restoration phase. Take it down to bare metal (I believe the car was originally black, and has total crap paint job) tackle any rust, then repaint. Then get the interior/ exterior trim all sorted.

And, if I get through alll that... I will probably want to undertake a motor swap, unless I'm just in love with the type 4. I tossed a few ideas out there, but my ideal motor would be a light, high revving motor with ITB's. Since S14's are not exactly obtainable, the 20V 4A-GE blacktop is my best idea so far. KEP makes an adapter for it, plus, it doesn't make enough power to break the stock 901 trans. I am a mechanical engineer with access to a machine shop, so fabbing some engine mounts, routing cooling system etc will most likely be pretty doable.

What do you guys think? Am I in over my head?
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Andyrew
post Nov 8 2018, 10:56 AM
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I have a lot of thoughts on this subject (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bang for the big buck, easy, fast, reliable.
LS motor with Boxster S trans.

Easy bang for the buck. Fits right and sounds right
Subaru 6 with Subaru trans.

Turbo bang for the buck.
Subaru turbo with Subaru trans.


Those are all very conventional and fantastic swaps.

Below are unconventional swaps.

Honda v6. 901 trans.
CHEAP, stupid reliable. I foresee this gaining popularity shortly.

VW/Audi motor with Boxster trans.
LOTS of fun and unconventional options here. You have to decide your goals for the car. Wiring is probably the most difficult part. I'm a self proclaimed expert on Audi motors and my favorite choices are as follows. With the fact that they we're all designed for similar bolt patterns on the transmission, the starter, and clutch assembly are all factory supported so it's much simpler. No adapter plates required, no mental mind games.


See below for my thoughts on the VW/Audi motors

V8 - ~300-350hp (plenty) good torque, high rev limit, exotic sound. Not enough torque to cause problems with some of the cheaper transmissions.

20v turbo 4. - cheap and reliable motor that has big support for big power depending on how much you spend. 200-900hp

VR6 motor - same as above, but heavier. Many people turbo these for up to 4 digit numbers. As a bonus Porsche put these motors in the Cayenne so you can claim it's a Porsche motor if you get the right block.

20v turbo 5 - see 20v turbo 4. But more low end torque, more potential, and a longer engine. (Space becomes tight at this point)


Something I'd like to do is a K20 with Honda trans. BIG turbo and all cheap Honda parts. Try for 500whp swap for less than 5k.




I think if I tackle another car it's going to be either a really simple swap like Subaru 6 or Honda. Or a Audi V8 simply for the sound.
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mgp4591
post Nov 8 2018, 01:28 PM
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QUOTE(Andyrew @ Nov 8 2018, 10:56 AM) *

I have a lot of thoughts on this subject (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bang for the big buck, easy, fast, reliable.
LS motor with Boxster S trans.

Easy bang for the buck. Fits right and sounds right
Subaru 6 with Subaru trans.

Turbo bang for the buck.
Subaru turbo with Subaru trans.


Those are all very conventional and fantastic swaps.

Below are unconventional swaps.

Honda v6. 901 trans.
CHEAP, stupid reliable. I foresee this gaining popularity shortly.

VW/Audi motor with Boxster trans.
LOTS of fun and unconventional options here. You have to decide your goals for the car. Wiring is probably the most difficult part. I'm a self proclaimed expert on Audi motors and my favorite choices are as follows. With the fact that they we're all designed for similar bolt patterns on the transmission, the starter, and clutch assembly are all factory supported so it's much simpler. No adapter plates required, no mental mind games.


See below for my thoughts on the VW/Audi motors

V8 - ~300-350hp (plenty) good torque, high rev limit, exotic sound. Not enough torque to cause problems with some of the cheaper transmissions.

20v turbo 4. - cheap and reliable motor that has big support for big power depending on how much you spend. 200-900hp

VR6 motor - same as above, but heavier. Many people turbo these for up to 4 digit numbers. As a bonus Porsche put these motors in the Cayenne so you can claim it's a Porsche motor if you get the right block.

20v turbo 5 - see 20v turbo 4. But more low end torque, more potential, and a longer engine. (Space becomes tight at this point)


Something I'd like to do is a K20 with Honda trans. BIG turbo and all cheap Honda parts. Try for 500whp swap for less than 5k.




I think if I tackle another car it's going to be either a really simple swap like Subaru 6 or Honda. Or a Audi V8 simply for the sound.

I thought about the Honda engine and trans swap - the biggest drawback is the width you're dealing with running it transversely. I did some measuring while I worked at Honda and there'd be some interesting modifications to make it fit right and line up the axles. The V6 seemed too tall with it fit to the Honda 5 spd and to me it seemed like wayy too much work. But if someone put in the time to modify everything that was needed, you'd have a great weight setup and a sweet package because it's all designed to work together already. ECU and all... tempting for sure.
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Dave_Darling
post Nov 8 2018, 05:35 PM
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QUOTE(mgp4591 @ Nov 8 2018, 11:28 AM) *

I thought about the Honda engine and trans swap - the biggest drawback is the width you're dealing with running it transversely.


The Honda V6 swaps mentioned above have used the stock 914 transmission, I believe.

BTW, I am a firm believer that the 914 is an immense amount of fun with less than 100 HP; I take issue with the thought that "200 HP is where the fun starts". If you drive it right, you can have fun with two-digit power levels.

Oh, and any time you're doing the first swap of motor X into a 914, you will want to measure and measure and measure and measure. Some engines that would seem to be natural for swaps (928 V8 engines, 944 engines, some others, even four-bangers) actually do not fit without some fairly significant mods. The firewall on the 914 tilts back at a noticeable angle, and that can cause fitment problems for taller engines. The firewall can be moved, the whole drivetrain can be shifted aft in the car, and other things can be done, but you will definitely want to figure out if any of those are needed first.

--DD
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Andyrew
post Nov 8 2018, 05:39 PM
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QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Nov 8 2018, 03:35 PM) *

QUOTE(mgp4591 @ Nov 8 2018, 11:28 AM) *

I thought about the Honda engine and trans swap - the biggest drawback is the width you're dealing with running it transversely.


The Honda V6 swaps mentioned above have used the stock 914 transmission, I believe.

BTW, I am a firm believer that the 914 is an immense amount of fun with less than 100 HP; I take issue with the thought that "200 HP is where the fun starts". If you drive it right, you can have fun with two-digit power levels.

Oh, and any time you're doing the first swap of motor X into a 914, you will want to measure and measure and measure and measure. Some engines that would seem to be natural for swaps (928 V8 engines, 944 engines, some others, even four-bangers) actually do not fit without some fairly significant mods. The firewall on the 914 tilts back at a noticeable angle, and that can cause fitment problems for taller engines. The firewall can be moved, the whole drivetrain can be shifted aft in the car, and other things can be done, but you will definitely want to figure out if any of those are needed first.

--DD


Dave,

My point is I think below the 200hp territory, the best motor for the job is the type 4 motor.
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Posts in this topic
betz   New 914 owner! Already dreaming of engine swaps...   Nov 6 2018, 04:07 PM
aharder   :wttc:   Nov 6 2018, 04:39 PM
ValcoOscar   :wttc:   Nov 6 2018, 04:52 PM
mepstein   :wttc:   Nov 6 2018, 04:58 PM
theer   What do you guys think? Am I in over my head? ...   Nov 6 2018, 05:24 PM
betz   I had to look up what a 4A-GE blacktop is, but y...   Nov 6 2018, 06:19 PM
Shadowfax   :wttc: Looks like a great starting point.   Nov 6 2018, 05:46 PM
Chi-town   A blacktop is nice but parts are getting harder an...   Nov 6 2018, 08:11 PM
betz   A blacktop is nice but parts are getting harder a...   Nov 6 2018, 11:24 PM
Tdskip   Welcome! My guess is the height of the engin...   Nov 6 2018, 08:22 PM
76-914   :wttc: It will not be difficult to improve upon th...   Nov 6 2018, 09:01 PM
Cairo94507   :wttc: Regardless of what you do, have fun doing i...   Nov 7 2018, 08:29 AM
Chi-town   A blacktop is nice but parts are getting harder ...   Nov 7 2018, 09:03 AM
betz   I did love the sound of the ITBs screaming but y...   Nov 7 2018, 11:40 AM
Mueller   Welcome to the club! Quite a few 914 owners d...   Nov 7 2018, 10:09 AM
914-300Hemi   :wttc:   Nov 7 2018, 10:20 AM
914_teener   "The plan for the car is to get it running wi...   Nov 7 2018, 12:14 PM
MichiganMat   Hello from San Jose. I just finished up my WRX sw...   Nov 7 2018, 04:47 PM
Chi-town   Not really hurting it too much, seeing as multip...   Nov 7 2018, 04:53 PM
betz   A 16v 4AGE with ITB's sounds exactly the sa...   Nov 8 2018, 02:17 AM
Andyrew   A 16v 4AGE with ITB's sounds exactly the s...   Nov 8 2018, 10:59 AM
Mueller   Had I not gotten such a killer deal for my Honda V...   Nov 7 2018, 04:59 PM
Andyrew   I have a lot of thoughts on this subject :) Bang...   Nov 8 2018, 10:56 AM
mgp4591   I have a lot of thoughts on this subject :) Ban...   Nov 8 2018, 01:28 PM
Dave_Darling   I thought about the Honda engine and trans swap -...   Nov 8 2018, 05:35 PM
Andyrew   I thought about the Honda engine and trans swap ...   Nov 8 2018, 05:39 PM
Chris H.   Yes the K series is a very strong, cheap, plentifu...   Nov 8 2018, 02:13 PM
Rand   This subject has been beaten to death. Are you exp...   Nov 8 2018, 02:17 PM
betz   This subject has been beaten to death. Are you ex...   Nov 8 2018, 04:24 PM
Rand   This subject has been beaten to death. Are you e...   Nov 8 2018, 08:15 PM
Andyrew   Lots of 914 guys around you... Why dont you go for...   Nov 8 2018, 05:12 PM
betz   Lots of 914 guys around you... Why dont you go fo...   Nov 8 2018, 06:54 PM
Bleyseng   Lots of 914 guys around you... Why dont you go f...   May 15 2019, 07:35 AM
Andyrew   DP   Nov 8 2018, 05:31 PM
betz   Somebody talk me out of buying this guy and pullin...   Nov 9 2018, 01:35 PM
Andyrew   Somebody talk me out of buying this guy and pulli...   Nov 9 2018, 02:49 PM
betz   You were complaining the subaru being unreliable...   Nov 9 2018, 03:32 PM
Andyrew   You were complaining the subaru being unreliabl...   Nov 9 2018, 03:57 PM
PatrickB   Somebody talk me out of buying this guy and pulli...   Nov 11 2018, 05:52 AM
Chi-town   Somebody talk me out of buying this guy and pulli...   Nov 9 2018, 03:40 PM
Andyrew   [quote name='betz' post='2664360' date='Nov 9 201...   Nov 9 2018, 03:56 PM
betz   Tell ya what, if you want to waste money like th...   Nov 9 2018, 04:11 PM
Larmo63   I read this thread thinking I was logged into 914 ...   Nov 9 2018, 04:53 PM
Chi-town   :rotfl: Alfa owners on suicide watch now Looks ...   Nov 9 2018, 05:29 PM
Porschef   Buy it for the Brembo calipers :evilgrin:   Nov 9 2018, 05:31 PM
djway   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcPgE40t4dc Well ...   Nov 9 2018, 10:50 PM
Chris914n6   More motivation... K20A2 Porsche 911 http://www.9...   Nov 10 2018, 01:07 AM
betz   More motivation... K20A2 Porsche 911 I did my N...   Nov 10 2018, 10:13 AM
Dave_Darling   I did my Nissan VQ30DE swap back in 2000 before f...   Nov 11 2018, 01:35 PM
Chris914n6   I did my Nissan VQ30DE swap back in 2000 before ...   Nov 11 2018, 09:58 PM
Chris914n6   Most of the Subie guys use SpeedHut gauges. Mainly...   Nov 10 2018, 12:22 PM
betz   I've been sick the past few days, but I couldn...   Nov 10 2018, 06:17 PM
Chi-town   I've been sick the past few days, but I could...   Nov 11 2018, 01:48 PM
betz   I got it started!!! https://photos.ap...   Nov 11 2018, 04:45 PM
Andyrew   Awesome! Do a minor tune up and keep driving i...   Nov 11 2018, 05:09 PM
Mike Bellis   I'm a big advocate of the Audi 20v turbo. I...   Nov 11 2018, 08:34 PM
matthepcat   Nice to meet you today betz, will be watching the ...   Nov 11 2018, 09:05 PM
betz   I think my next step is to track down this weird i...   Nov 12 2018, 04:00 PM
Dave_Darling   First: FUEL LEAKS BAD!!! Make sure y...   Nov 12 2018, 04:33 PM
betz   First: FUEL LEAKS BAD!!! Make sure ...   Nov 12 2018, 08:15 PM
Andyrew   After driving the 914 I think I might just go a ...   Nov 12 2018, 09:38 PM
mepstein   My feeling was to do my suby swap with a cheap but...   Nov 12 2018, 08:21 PM
Tdskip   Going down a path that others have plowed is likel...   Nov 13 2018, 07:28 AM
betz   Going down a path that others have plowed is like...   Nov 15 2018, 03:43 PM
914_teener   Going down a path that others have plowed is lik...   Nov 15 2018, 03:49 PM
betz   Your personnel comments about someone probably ...   Nov 15 2018, 04:26 PM
mepstein   Your personnel comments about someone probably...   Nov 15 2018, 04:52 PM
betz   You just described a small to mid six. I would ...   Nov 15 2018, 05:42 PM
Mike Bellis   Going down a path that others have plowed is lik...   Nov 27 2018, 07:16 PM
Dave_Darling   We know people who run Type IV motors at 7K RPM pr...   Nov 15 2018, 06:27 PM
betz   Thanks for the reply Dave. I just made a black fr...   Nov 26 2018, 06:34 PM
rhodyguy   wow.   Nov 26 2018, 07:06 PM
Dave_Darling   Well, it sure looks cool! No idea of the answ...   Nov 26 2018, 11:18 PM
betz   Well, it sure looks cool! No idea of the ans...   Nov 27 2018, 11:17 AM
Larmo63   I'd call Jake Raby and get his opinion. :st...   Nov 27 2018, 12:22 AM
Chris914n6   The 86 is like the 350z... the enthusiasts are doi...   Nov 27 2018, 03:15 PM
betz   The 86 is like the 350z... the enthusiasts are do...   Nov 27 2018, 03:39 PM
1adam12   I originally thought of doing an FA-20 swap a year...   Nov 27 2018, 04:30 PM
betz   I originally thought of doing an FA-20 swap a yea...   Nov 27 2018, 05:27 PM
1adam12   I originally thought of doing an FA-20 swap a ye...   Nov 27 2018, 06:05 PM
Chi-town   FA20 is a joke. Underpowered, unreliable when used...   Nov 27 2018, 06:58 PM
betz   FA20 is a joke. Underpowered, unreliable when use...   Nov 28 2018, 12:45 AM
Chi-town   The EJ series engines even N/A are cheap and easy ...   Nov 28 2018, 12:56 AM
betz   Welp, after a half a year of deliberation I've...   Apr 23 2019, 04:32 PM
rhodyguy   What is the timing belt interval for that engine? ...   Apr 24 2019, 12:42 PM
Chi-town   That's not a mint one, that's your standar...   Apr 24 2019, 04:43 PM
betz   That's not a mint one, that's your standa...   Apr 24 2019, 05:26 PM
RolinkHaus   How about a German engine?? :shades2: :popcorn:   Apr 24 2019, 05:50 PM
betz   How about a German engine?? :shades2: :popcorn: ...   Apr 24 2019, 07:13 PM
Grego in Sac   How about a German engine?? :shades2: :popcorn:...   Jul 15 2021, 01:30 PM
Chris914n6   You want to do all the usual maintenance items bef...   Apr 24 2019, 06:02 PM
2mAn   Thanks for all of the welcomes! I hardly got...   May 14 2019, 04:38 PM


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