New 914 owner! Already dreaming of engine swaps..., What would you guys think about a 4A-GE blacktop in a 914? Options

[betz]

A little background: I have 3 cars besides the 914: A stock '00 Boxster, a restored '86 E30 BMW with a 2.8L stroker M20, and a '06 Outback XT. All manual trans.

I found this 1972 914 1.7 on craigslist for $1600 and the main selling point to me was that most of the parts were there, it just seemed to need some basic TLC to get it running. Also, its a California car and not a total rust bucket. Also hasn't appeared to be in any major accidents. After pretty much finishing my E30 I've been itching for a new project... Ideally smog exempt.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-22593-1541542078.1.jpg)

The plan for the car is to get it running with the original type 4. The PO, who only had it for a few months, said he thinks it needs a fuel pump... turns out, the fuel pump wasn't even plugged in. So OF COURSE it's not running. He got it to start briefly with just starter fluid, so I'm thinking that's pretty much it. I'm going to bring it back to stock configuration on the D-jet, change out the oil and fuel, plug in the dang fuel pump in and I pretty much expect it to start up no problem.

From there, I will get into the restoration phase. Take it down to bare metal (I believe the car was originally black, and has total crap paint job) tackle any rust, then repaint. Then get the interior/ exterior trim all sorted.

And, if I get through alll that... I will probably want to undertake a motor swap, unless I'm just in love with the type 4. I tossed a few ideas out there, but my ideal motor would be a light, high revving motor with ITB's. Since S14's are not exactly obtainable, the 20V 4A-GE blacktop is my best idea so far. KEP makes an adapter for it, plus, it doesn't make enough power to break the stock 901 trans. I am a mechanical engineer with access to a machine shop, so fabbing some engine mounts, routing cooling system etc will most likely be pretty doable.

What do you guys think? Am I in over my head?

[Tdskip]

Going down a path that others have plowed is likely to give you a much better result, much quicker.

[betz]

Going down a path that others have plowed is likely to give you a much better result, much quicker.

This is very true. Even partially plowed is better than nothing.

Not going to lie. I'm strongly considering a type 4 build now. Which may or may not be related to the fact that the type 4 may be the absolute easiest motor in existence to fit ITB's to affordably. Looks like they sell 40mm and 48mm throttles for about $550 for all 4. (Why no middle ground??)

Looking into it, I think the big bottleneck for a budget build is the heads. Ideally, I'd want to fit the biggest possible valves into my 1.7 heads as possible and do the whole spark plug relocation thing. I need to talk to some engine builders, I may have a contact with lots of experience with these heads.

If I get the head figured out, seems like the hot ticket will be the 96mm cylinders, 78.4mm crankshaft, and a nice cam to compliment the setup. Wonder if I can pull 6-6.5k RPM out of this motor... what's the limiting factor besides the cam?

From there, I've already decided what I want to do if I go down this path. Megasquirt with ITB's. 100%. I have absolutely 0 experience with carburetors so the whole idea of it being simpler and easier is not the case for me. When I set up the megasquirt with a proper tune I'll never have to worry about it being tempermental and it will run smoother than a carb'd car ever would.


The only thing *not* making me want to build a type 4 is that jerk Jake Raby. Every damn thread about a type 4 build ends up with "you'd be stupid to try this yourself, the only way to have a good motor is to buy it from Jake Raby". And then Jake Raby chiming in "Years and years of R&D, we don't just toss components together, issall in the combooooooooo"

Well, I may have only gotten my degree in mechanical engineering, but if I can toss together a type 4 motor that's 80% as good as a JaKe rAbY motor for a fifth of the cost, then I would consider that a major success.

Is 150 crank hp achievable with this spec?

[914_teener]

Going down a path that others have plowed is likely to give you a much better result, much quicker.

This is very true. Even partially plowed is better than nothing.

Not going to lie. I'm strongly considering a type 4 build now. Which may or may not be related to the fact that the type 4 may be the absolute easiest motor in existence to fit ITB's to affordably. Looks like they sell 40mm and 48mm throttles for about $550 for all 4. (Why no middle ground??)

Looking into it, I think the big bottleneck for a budget build is the heads. Ideally, I'd want to fit the biggest possible valves into my 1.7 heads as possible and do the whole spark plug relocation thing. I need to talk to some engine builders, I may have a contact with lots of experience with these heads.

If I get the head figured out, seems like the hot ticket will be the 96mm cylinders, 78.4mm crankshaft, and a nice cam to compliment the setup. Wonder if I can pull 6-6.5k RPM out of this motor... what's the limiting factor besides the cam?

From there, I've already decided what I want to do if I go down this path. Megasquirt with ITB's. 100%. I have absolutely 0 experience with carburetors so the whole idea of it being simpler and easier is not the case for me. When I set up the megasquirt with a proper tune I'll never have to worry about it being tempermental and it will run smoother than a carb'd car ever would.


The only thing *not* making me want to build a type 4 is that jerk Jake Raby. Every damn thread about a type 4 build ends up with "you'd be stupid to try this yourself, the only way to have a good motor is to buy it from Jake Raby". And then Jake Raby chiming in "Years and years of R&D, we don't just toss components together, issall in the combooooooooo"

Well, I may have only gotten my degree in mechanical engineering, but if I can toss together a type 4 motor that's 80% as good as a JaKe rAbY motor for a fifth of the cost, then I would consider that a major success.

Is 150 crank hp achievable with this spec?

Your personnel comments about someone probably aren't necessary.

Your classes in thermodynamics would tell you what is achievable.

edit:

And the size of your wallet is what is possible.

[betz]

Your personnel comments about someone probably aren't necessary.

Your classes in thermodynamics would tell you what is achievable.

edit:

And the size of your wallet is what is possible.

I didn't need to mention any contacts true.. kind of just thinking out loud that that'll be useful.

My classes in thermodynamics told me that I'd better get the cold reservoir in my engine sub arctic and get that hot reservoir to the surface of the sun and then just garden hose fuel by the gallon and I'll get basically infinite power.

Mechanical engineering courses don't teach jack about building an engine or anything really useful in the real world for that matter, however it does force you to think like an engineer. Whether somebody can apply that to the real world is up to said person. I have built an engine before and that engine got me to work this morning, so I like to think I can apply it well enough.

Realistically I'm not even chasing power else I'd never even consider the type 4. I just want a fun motor. IE, a motor that doesn't feel like you're accelerating with a leaf blower pointed backwards out the window. Other than that.. I'm chasing sound, character, and response. I'm realizing the type 4 may be the ticket to that.

[mepstein]

Your personnel comments about someone probably aren't necessary.

Your classes in thermodynamics would tell you what is achievable.

edit:

And the size of your wallet is what is possible.

I didn't need to mention any contacts true.. kind of just thinking out loud that that'll be useful.

My classes in thermodynamics told me that I'd better get the cold reservoir in my engine sub arctic and get that hot reservoir to the surface of the sun and then just garden hose fuel by the gallon and I'll get basically infinite power.

Mechanical engineering courses don't teach jack about building an engine or anything really useful in the real world for that matter, however it does force you to think like an engineer. Whether somebody can apply that to the real world is up to said person. I have built an engine before and that engine got me to work this morning, so I like to think I can apply it well enough.

Realistically I'm not even chasing power else I'd never even consider the type 4. I just want a fun motor. IE, a motor that doesn't feel like you're accelerating with a leaf blower pointed backwards out the window. Other than that.. I'm chasing sound, character, and response. I'm realizing the type 4 may be the ticket to that.

You just described a small to mid six.