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> Factory Six Race 914, Up for auction
ClayPerrine
post Jun 2 2021, 06:23 AM
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This factory six race car is up for auction on PCA Market.

https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/1970-por...4-6-race-car-1/

Looks to be a nicely done car.

No affiliation, just thought I would share.

Clay
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GregAmy
post Jun 4 2021, 06:08 AM
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This has been a philosophical discussion within automotive and aviation restoration circles (among many others) for decades.

It's a concept that has been discussed for millenium and has not been resolved (Theseus' Ship):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
https://open.library.okstate.edu/introphilo...hip-of-theseus/

One can even argue that since your skin cells are replaced every 2-3 weeks (and your blood every few days, and your bones every ~10 years) that you aren't the same person you were last month.*

A similar philosophical argument arose during the Star Trek days: since your matter is turned into energy by the transporter and that energy is beamed down to the surface of a planet and recreated as matter, are you really the same person you were "up there"? And if you were accidentally perfectly duplicated by the transporter, which one is the "real you"?

So this will not get resolved here.

In the end, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, and has the original duck's personal identification information. It's a duck.

How would you prove otherwise?

Beer.

*But your brain doesn't generally regenerate as you age. So if you can remove the brain and put it into a whole other body, are you the same person? Is the brain the "VIN" of the human world?

Edit: and, given we're talking about a race car...we've experienced similar philosophical discussions in creating prep regulations.

Take the Porsche 935 as an example; Group 5 regs started out as modifications to production cars and the 935 is generally accepted as a derivation of the street-going 911.

But is it? As we bgan to prep the street 911 for racing use, in the interest of speed and safety we piece-by-piece upgraded or replaced bits: a lightened panel here, a widened fender there, upgraded drivetrain bit here, bigger brakes there. We started with installing a rollcage only later to expand that cage to encompass drivetrain and suspension parts, such that we could cut away pretty much many remaining production chassis panels (to make things lighter, of course).

During all this we had to "retain" the stock roof and windshield. But "retain" is a philosophical concept, for as once things were all said and done all we did was obtain a 911 roof and windshield from Porsche and build a bespoke race car around it.

So was it really a 911 street car? Was the roof its "VIN" (even though they all had unqie serial numbers)? How much of a 911 had to be there in order to presume it's a 911?

Wasn't too long after that that we simply tossed that ridiculous premise and allowed full-up prototypes; see 956/962. Evolution of thought is a wonderful thing, and it's interesting to look back at how you got there.

This is also how our SCCA Sedan category evolved into bespoke tubeframe-chassis Grand Touring cars. A added tube here, a chassis snip there...and pretty soon we don't even bother starting with a Corvette, we just build a chassis from scratch and toss Corvette-looking body panels at it (see also: NASCAR).

More beer.
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ClayPerrine   Factory Six Race 914   Jun 2 2021, 06:23 AM
Racer   What does this mean: Selling with a 914/6 VIN.....   Jun 2 2021, 06:43 AM
mb911   What does this mean: Selling with a 914/6 VIN....   Jun 2 2021, 06:47 AM
Racer   My apologies.. I didn't see that in the wri...   Jun 2 2021, 06:54 AM
Superhawk996   VIN swap. Borderline illegal but depends on the s...   Jun 2 2021, 06:53 AM
mepstein   I think it's a vin swap but at least the selle...   Jun 2 2021, 07:05 AM
Superhawk996   . . . but at least the seller is being upfront a...   Jun 2 2021, 07:09 AM
GregAmy   Generally speaking, sanctioning body regs require ...   Jun 2 2021, 07:25 AM
Racer   Looking at the maintenance book.. Car is a 1970. ...   Jun 2 2021, 07:33 AM
mb911   Looking at the maintenance book.. Car is a 1970....   Jun 2 2021, 10:02 AM
SirAndy   I know its just me being a bit anal, but is there ...   Jun 2 2021, 10:34 AM
brant   neat car and nice build. but technically a conver...   Jun 2 2021, 08:27 AM
Bullethead   I posted it to the classifieds last week, and Mark...   Jun 2 2021, 08:56 AM
ClayPerrine   I don't know about other states, but here in T...   Jun 2 2021, 11:00 AM
infraredcalvin   And for a race car that will never see the street,...   Jun 2 2021, 02:06 PM
73-914   In New York , 1970 is pre-title, the registration ...   Jun 2 2021, 12:13 PM
Racer   I think what is just irking me is that its being l...   Jun 2 2021, 12:20 PM
infraredcalvin   Registered... :unsure:   Jun 2 2021, 02:14 PM
Bullethead   Registered... :unsure: Seller's post ans...   Jun 2 2021, 02:25 PM
rick 918-S   What if your car is a 6 and the right corner is cr...   Jun 3 2021, 05:48 AM
Superhawk996   What if your car is a 6 and the right corner is c...   Jun 3 2021, 06:01 AM
rick 918-S   What if your car is a 6 and the right corner is ...   Jun 4 2021, 09:54 AM
Superhawk996   There is no state law that governs what you do t...   Jun 4 2021, 10:40 AM
rick 918-S   There is no state law that governs what you do ...   Jun 4 2021, 11:13 AM
Superhawk996   You called it a swap. Others may call it a resto...   Jun 4 2021, 11:49 AM
SirAndy   You called it a swap. Others may call it a restora...   Jun 4 2021, 01:59 PM
rick 918-S   You called it a swap. Others may call it a restor...   Jun 4 2021, 02:27 PM
wonkipop   [quote name='rick 918-S' post='2920860' date...   Jun 4 2021, 04:08 PM
73-914   There is no state law that governs what you do ...   Jun 6 2021, 06:14 AM
Racer   What if your car is a 6 and the right corner is c...   Jun 3 2021, 06:01 AM
73-914   What if your car is a 6 and the right corner is ...   Jun 3 2021, 06:49 AM
ClayPerrine   Wow! I didn't realize this thread would ge...   Jun 3 2021, 11:50 AM
rick 918-S   Wow! I didn't realize this thread would g...   Jun 3 2021, 07:31 PM
Racer   Car did not meet reserve. . . . still available...   Jun 3 2021, 01:00 PM
GregAmy   This has been a philosophical discussion within au...   Jun 4 2021, 06:08 AM
Jonathan Livesay   Is there some kind of important difference that I ...   Jun 4 2021, 12:09 PM
rick 918-S   Is there some kind of important difference that I...   Jun 4 2021, 12:18 PM
Superhawk996   Is there some kind of important difference that I...   Jun 4 2021, 12:25 PM
mepstein   Legality aside, I think full disclosure, regardles...   Jun 4 2021, 12:26 PM
Superhawk996   FWIW -- awesome thread. Good discussion going on ...   Jun 4 2021, 05:02 PM
infraredcalvin   In the end, cars with “stories” will always be...   Jun 4 2021, 06:06 PM
wonkipop   In the end, cars with “stories” will always b...   Jun 6 2021, 03:32 AM


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