Factory Six Race 914, Up for auction |
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Factory Six Race 914, Up for auction |
ClayPerrine |
Jun 2 2021, 06:23 AM
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#1
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,512 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille |
This factory six race car is up for auction on PCA Market.
https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/1970-por...4-6-race-car-1/ Looks to be a nicely done car. No affiliation, just thought I would share. Clay |
rick 918-S |
Jun 3 2021, 05:48 AM
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#2
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Hey nice rack! -Celette Group: Members Posts: 20,484 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Now in Superior WI Member No.: 43 Region Association: Northstar Region |
What if your car is a 6 and the right corner is crushed? You need to replace the wheelhouse. Is it ok to the purest here to continue to call the car a 6 or does that erase the car as 6 and it becomes nothing of value? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
The fact is there is only 3100ist factory 6 cars built. Over the years they were wrecked and rusted. If a guy owns a factory 6 and chooses to restore it in a manor using "Like - Kind - and Quality" parts how does it matter how many parts are needed. It is still a restoration or repair of a rightfully owed factory 6. How you choose to value it personally does not change the fact that when a limited production car becomes rare enough and either rusted or damaged enough (or both) it become worth the investment to repair the car. Sometimes it takes a lot of parts, sometimes it doesn't. |
Superhawk996 |
Jun 3 2021, 06:01 AM
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#3
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,891 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
What if your car is a 6 and the right corner is crushed? You need to replace the wheelhouse. Is it ok to the purest here to continue to call the car a 6 or does that erase the car as. 6 and it becomes nothing of value? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) I don't think so. Still has value as /6. What would probably happen under Michigan state law would be that the vehicle probably would get an assembly title or potentially a new VIN assigned after that . . . if the letter of the law were followed. I'm sure there are plenty of shady people that would also just cut out the wheelhouse VIN and paste it into the new wheelhouse too - which would be illegal. A repair shop or dealer that got caught doing this would likely lose their licesnse. But given that /6 door jamb compliance sticker would still be in place, along with Karman tag, combined with window VIN tag, and maybe a slightly crushed & crumpled /6 headlamp tag, I would suspect next potential owner would have enough of the story to accept what had happened. And of course, transparency about the accident and subseqent repair would be expected right? Value of the /6 could then be assessed on merits of what was left and how the work was done. Still a /6, but, no longer "original". |
rick 918-S |
Jun 4 2021, 09:54 AM
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#4
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Hey nice rack! -Celette Group: Members Posts: 20,484 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Now in Superior WI Member No.: 43 Region Association: Northstar Region |
What if your car is a 6 and the right corner is crushed? You need to replace the wheelhouse. Is it ok to the purest here to continue to call the car a 6 or does that erase the car as. 6 and it becomes nothing of value? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) I don't think so. Still has value as /6. What would probably happen under Michigan state law would be that the vehicle probably would get an assembly title or potentially a new VIN assigned after that . . . if the letter of the law were followed. I'm sure there are plenty of shady people that would also just cut out the wheelhouse VIN and paste it into the new wheelhouse too - which would be illegal. A repair shop or dealer that got caught doing this would likely lose their licesnse. But given that /6 door jamb compliance sticker would still be in place, along with Karman tag, combined with window VIN tag, and maybe a slightly crushed & crumpled /6 headlamp tag, I would suspect next potential owner would have enough of the story to accept what had happened. And of course, transparency about the accident and subseqent repair would be expected right? Value of the /6 could then be assessed on merits of what was left and how the work was done. Still a /6, but, no longer "original". I have done lots of late model builders. The state only gets involved if insurance deems the vehicle a total loss. Otherwise they have no control over old cars undergoing restoration. these discussions always seem to come down to what the state laws are. But the state does not control what type of a repair a shop does for a restoration. There is no recertification process or structural engineer that checks to see if the integrity of the chassis was restored. There is no state law that governs what you do to repair a car with parts from another car in the restoration business. There is if you are doing a late model builder. You need all the receipts and the car is inspected before a stamped title is issued. the car in many states carries the rebuilt stamp for it's entire existence until the end of it's useable life. Then the issue arises. What if a late model Porsche was rebuilt. Then over time the value of the car far exceeded what it was worth at the time it was deemed a total loss by it's market value vs the cost to repair? Should the stamp be removed? Based on current value it would never have received the rebuilder stamp. |
Superhawk996 |
Jun 4 2021, 10:40 AM
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#5
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,891 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
There is no state law that governs what you do to repair a car with parts from another car in the restoration business. I beg to differ. VIN swapping is illegal in Michigan and many other states. VIN swapping is not a "repair". There are laws that govern when a VIN is given a Salvage title, an Assembly title, or a clean, clear, normal title. I may be particulary sensitive to this topic because I was once caught up in a used car sale of a 914/6 that turned out to be a VIN swap that was not disclosed. I was fortunate in getting the dealer to take it back about 1 hour after the sale. I could not determine if the VIN was swapped into a /4 or whether it had been swapped between two /6's. Someone went out of their way to try to hide the VIN swap. Title was never transfered to me and I can only wish I still had VIN detail on that car. Hopefully it has been wrecked or rotted by now. VIN swaps happen, and when they happen, they are fraudulent. |
rick 918-S |
Jun 4 2021, 11:13 AM
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#6
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Hey nice rack! -Celette Group: Members Posts: 20,484 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Now in Superior WI Member No.: 43 Region Association: Northstar Region |
There is no state law that governs what you do to repair a car with parts from another car in the restoration business. I beg to differ. VIN swapping is illegal in Michigan and many other states. VIN swapping is not a "repair". There are laws that govern when a VIN is given a Salvage title, an Assembly title, or a clean, clear, normal title. I may be particulary sensitive to this topic because I was once caught up in a used car sale of a 914/6 that turned out to be a VIN swap that was not disclosed. I was fortunate in getting the dealer to take it back about 1 hour after the sale. I could not determine if the VIN was swapped into a /4 or whether it had been swapped between two /6's. Someone went out of their way to try to hide the VIN swap. Title was never transfered to me and I can only wish I still had VIN detail on that car. Hopefully it has been wrecked or rotted by now. VIN swaps happen, and when they happen, they are fraudulent. You called it a swap. Others may call it a restoration of a rare car. How much of the original car needs to be retained before you would consider it a fraud? |
SirAndy |
Jun 4 2021, 01:59 PM
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#7
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,675 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
You called it a swap. Others may call it a restoration of a rare car. How much of the original car needs to be retained before you would consider it a fraud? It doesn't matter what "people call it". There's always an agenda, and it usually is biased towards benefiting the seller. For me the difference is pretty clear: - Take a rusty/crashed tub and replace as many parts as needed = OK - Take a nice tub and cut out the VIN tag and weld in another VIN tag = Fraud To me there is NO gray area here, no matter how much some would like there to be (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) PS: Not talking about you personally here Rick, just trying to make a point |
rick 918-S |
Jun 4 2021, 02:27 PM
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#8
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Hey nice rack! -Celette Group: Members Posts: 20,484 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Now in Superior WI Member No.: 43 Region Association: Northstar Region |
You called it a swap. Others may call it a restoration of a rare car. How much of the original car needs to be retained before you would consider it a fraud? It doesn't matter what "people call it". There's always an agenda, and it usually is biased towards benefiting the seller. For me the difference is pretty clear: - Take a rusty/crashed tub and replace as many parts as needed = OK - Take a nice tub and cut out the VIN tag and weld in another VIN tag = Fraud To me there is NO gray area here, no matter how much some would like there to be (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) PS: Not talking about you personally here Rick, just trying to make a point No worries Andy. Just posing some scenarios that seem to get crossed up with the intent of the law and the intent of a party in the business of restoration. Personally I never clipped a car ( two halves of two different cars as builders) Saw some done that way. Not for me. And I am not referring the the Limo. That thing was a purely fun idea. It does amuse me when I see the cheerleaders raving about some rusted hulk sectioned 6 ways to Sunday and built from a couple dozen cars and that is somehow a restored car... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Makes me chuckle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) No knowledge of structural integrity or crush zones. Just add some plate steel where ever you think it needs it. Then I see the flame squad burning down a car that they would never purchase because it has the wrong filler neck on the oil tank. |
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