Got salt? Options

[emerygt350]

Why yes, that is dry pavement.

[914_teener]

I am in Northern AZ part time where in the Winter it's very common to have snow.

Mostly they use ground pumice as salt is a killer for road surfaces and concrete long term...(I'm a civil engineer). The snow is short lived there genereally but sometimes NOT in my north facing driveway. When I resruface the driveway I'm looking into a paver systems and some type of radiant heating to de-ice it.

As everyone may know by now, bridge appraoches are notorious for icing becuase of the massive thermal mass of the concrete which tends to ice once it reaches gradient temperature. The uses of clorides like salt do massive damages to those approaches and particulary steel structures with concrete decks built back in the seventies.

It's cheap yes but long term the true cost of degradation of roads and bridges is in the billions of dollars.

Be responsible and learn how to drive. I don't expect anyone else to pay for my negiligence in that regard.

One of the reasons I got the Macan P car....AWD on demand. It's an amazing handler in snow with the right tires.

[wonkipop]

I am in Northern AZ part time where in the Winter it's very common to have snow.

Mostly they use ground pumice as salt is a killer for road surfaces and concrete long term...(I'm a civil engineer). The snow is short lived there genereally but sometimes NOT in my north facing driveway. When I resruface the driveway I'm looking into a paver systems and some type of radiant heating to de-ice it.

As everyone may know by now, bridge appraoches are notorious for icing becuase of the massive thermal mass of the concrete which tends to ice once it reaches gradient temperature. The uses of clorides like salt do massive damages to those approaches and particulary steel structures with concrete decks built back in the seventies.

It's cheap yes but long term the true cost of degradation of roads and bridges is in the billions of dollars.

Be responsible and learn how to drive. I don't expect anyone else to pay for my negiligence in that regard.

One of the reasons I got the Macan P car....AWD on demand. It's an amazing handler in snow with the right tires.

yes - there has been a few bridge collapses in recent years in the USA.
salt and reinforced concrete or steel are not best of friends.
that all catches up as you say.
then its a very big bill and a lot of pressure on govt. budgets to fix it.
these things have a habit of starting to all fail at the same time too.

awd makes a lot of sense in northern regions of the usa.
(makes sense anywhere when you think about it).

[914_teener]

I am in Northern AZ part time where in the Winter it's very common to have snow.

Mostly they use ground pumice as salt is a killer for road surfaces and concrete long term...(I'm a civil engineer). The snow is short lived there genereally but sometimes NOT in my north facing driveway. When I resruface the driveway I'm looking into a paver systems and some type of radiant heating to de-ice it.

As everyone may know by now, bridge appraoches are notorious for icing becuase of the massive thermal mass of the concrete which tends to ice once it reaches gradient temperature. The uses of clorides like salt do massive damages to those approaches and particulary steel structures with concrete decks built back in the seventies.

It's cheap yes but long term the true cost of degradation of roads and bridges is in the billions of dollars.

Be responsible and learn how to drive. I don't expect anyone else to pay for my negiligence in that regard.

One of the reasons I got the Macan P car....AWD on demand. It's an amazing handler in snow with the right tires.

yes - there has been a few bridge collapses in recent years in the USA.
salt and reinforced concrete or steel are not best of friends.
that all catches up as you say.
then its a very big bill and a lot of pressure on govt. budgets to fix it.
these things have a habit of starting to all fail at the same time too.

awd makes a lot of sense in northern regions of the usa.
(makes sense anywhere when you think about it).

Traffic control is all about liability. The Northeastern US uses a lot of salt because....it's a cheap way to de-ice and they have prolonged periods of freezing and sometimes subfreezing temperature.

In AZ...they put a sign well before the bridge warning you....and if you didn't know this about bridge approaches during freezing periods then you should. Normallly the periods of freezing temps don't last as long, so they use crushed pumice instead. Not great for the windshield though, but it's better for the roads and bridges.


That bridge that failed recently wasn't designed to last more than 50 years and the City that was in charge of it ---Pittsburg...likely didn't have the money to pay to fix it.

We'll see what the NTSB comes up with.

I'ts just blind luck nobody was killed.

[930cabman]

[quote name='914_teener' date='Feb 3 2022, 02:56 PM' post='2979257']
[quote name='wonkipop' post='2979240' date='Feb 3 2022, 10:44 AM']
[quote name='914_teener' post='2979043' date='Feb 2 2022, 12:16 PM']
I am in Northern AZ part time where in the Winter it's very common to have snow.

Mostly they use ground pumice as salt is a killer for road surfaces and concrete long term...(I'm a civil engineer). The snow is short lived there genereally but sometimes NOT in my north facing driveway. When I resruface the driveway I'm looking into a paver systems and some type of radiant heating to de-ice it.

As everyone may know by now, bridge appraoches are notorious for icing becuase of the massive thermal mass of the concrete which tends to ice once it reaches gradient temperature. The uses of clorides like salt do massive damages to those approaches and particulary steel structures with concrete decks built back in the seventies.

It's cheap yes but long term the true cost of degradation of roads and bridges is in the billions of dollars.

Be responsible and learn how to drive. I don't expect anyone else to pay for my negiligence in that regard.

One of the reasons I got the Macan P car....AWD on demand. It's an amazing handler in snow with the right tires.
[/quote]

yes - there has been a few bridge collapses in recent years in the USA.
salt and reinforced concrete or steel are not best of friends.
that all catches up as you say.
then its a very big bill and a lot of pressure on govt. budgets to fix it.
these things have a habit of starting to all fail at the same time too.

awd makes a lot of sense in northern regions of the usa.
(makes sense anywhere when you think about it).
[/quote]


Traffic control is all about liability. The Northeastern US uses a lot of salt because....it's a cheap way to de-ice and they have prolonged periods of freezing and sometimes subfreezing temperature.

In AZ...they put a sign well before the bridge warning you....and if you didn't know this about bridge approaches during freezing periods then you should. Normallly the periods of freezing temps don't last as long, so they use crushed pumice instead. Not great for the windshield though, but it's better for the roads and bridges.


That bridge that failed recently wasn't designed to last more than 50 years and the City that was in charge of it ---Pittsburg...likely didn't have the money to pay to fix it.

We'll see what the NTSB comes up with.

I'ts just blind luck nobody was killed.

Shame on the city of Pittsburgh, nothing short of a miracle nobody was seriously injured or killed. Here in Sunny Buffalo the forecast is about 30 hours of steady snow.
Best bet is to steer clear of the idiots, cause there are many

[flipb]

Shame on the city of Pittsburgh, nothing short of a miracle nobody was seriously injured or killed. Here in Sunny Buffalo the forecast is about 30 hours of steady snow.
Best bet is to steer clear of the idiots, cause there are many

Before you cast stones: 9.4% of bridges in NY Congressional District 26 (home to Buffalo) are currently structurally deficient.

Look up any state/district here.

[914_teener]

Shame on the city of Pittsburgh, nothing short of a miracle nobody was seriously injured or killed. Here in Sunny Buffalo the forecast is about 30 hours of steady snow.
Best bet is to steer clear of the idiots, cause there are many

Before you cast stones: 9.4% of bridges in NY Congressional District 26 (home to Buffalo) are currently structurally deficient.

Look up any state/district here.

I'll stand by my stones. The bridge was under the jurisdiction of the City of Pittsburgh and fell on the Interstate under FWHA jurisdiction. In 2017 they changed the overall rating for bridge evaluation by limiting it to cetain key elements instead of overall.

So if anything there that failed wasn't technically a key element...then it didn't make that list.


The bridge that failed in Pittsburgh was overall a "4" so thus...didn't rate to be closed. I suspect it will be a while before the NTSB report comes out but I'll bet they'll be looking closely at how the rating system relates to the poor soul or company that did the inspection. Not long ago a guy was drifting down the Mississippi River and saw and documents a huge crack in a tension strut on the I-40 Bridge. Turns out it had not long ago been inspected by ONE guy. They changed that rule too...that two people had to inspect.

Off track here or else Clay will close the thread down...

Get AWD P car and learn to drive

Also avoid the bridges on that list if you can. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)