Why yes, that is dry pavement.
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Checks… I won’t be driving either Porsche until several rains have washed that all away…

EWWWWWWW Nasty white stuff covering the ground....


And I am not referring to the salt.

Clay

Yeah… I miss Houston more and more every year.

it looks purty when it first falls.

as i remember it turns to black slush within a day.
then freezes so you have to tip toe around.

been checking out news reports.
you east coasters copped a real dumping last week or so?
looked horrible.

Just a smattering here inland a bit. Bitter cold and salty due to the ice. Keeping it indoors for the present.

you have just reminded me of ice storms.
used to get those in chicago.

broken trees.
glad its you lot and not me.
its 7.30 am and a pleasant 22C.
heading for a top of 30.

For those of you that may not experience this... The white on the road,that is all salt. That is black asphalt on a perfectly dry day. No snow on the road.

What does not deteriorate with exposure to salt???

Nothing, steel, our bodies, aluminum, ....

I trust you are not cruising on salty roads

Luckily the Porsche is trapped behind feet of snow, in the garage.

Careful! Even talking about salt near a 914 can make it rust overnight.

dumb question from dumb australian.

but why the fuch do they still use salt.
its the 21st century.
isn't there something better out there?

it hit 35.5C today.
there was a lot of salt residue all over me.
sweating it out on the falcon ute down at the workshop.
i hope i am not making it rust again.

i did not approach within 40 feet of the 914.

Yep, that's the way it is around here also. You can't even see asphalt on my road.
It's way too much. It seems to get worse as the years go by.
They also brine the roads pre-storm. A mechanic friend of mine says he replaces brake lines much earlier in a cars lifetime than ever before.
The white clouds of "smoke" behind vehicles is disturbing.
Before front-wheel-drive and awd cars became popular we were driving rear wheel drive cars and we managed just fine and they didn't use anywhere near this much salt.
I can see salting steep hills, sharp corners and intersections but not tons of salt everywhere.
It seems as though there's an expectation or entitlement that motorists need to drive at full speed all all times.

Salt is probably cheap and if salting saves 1 life it's worth it. Not sure of you winters in Aussie, but here in the Northeast US it gets nasty

Wisconsin last week -23 deg in the morning.....But, this is the only salt my car will ever see or feel. 300lbs plus in the front trunk while installing engine and trans. Did not want it to fall off lift. Best, MarkClick to view attachment

PA has gone to using brine, which seems to be worse then salt when it comes to corrosion. But its cheaper then rock salt and in theory you get more even coverage.

But when I see the panic lines show up on the road for the first time, thats the end of the driving season until the spring rains wash all that crap off the roads.

Zach

That checks. The brine is designed to not wash away, which means more trouble for vehicles that drive on it.

Around here, the road crews both brine the roads before a storm and then heavily salt the roads as they plow. After the roads are cleared, all evidence of the brining has disappeared, and masses of rock salt crystals are left behind for passing vehicles to crush into the blacktop.

They used to do that here. And I think some of the towns still do that. Mine seems to just brine and then plow during the storm. Others lay down the rock salt while plowing.

I just have not seen that the brine is effective in keeping the roads clear. The rock salt at least gives you tires somehting to grab into while driving. An the brine is way more harsh on vehicles.

Zach

In my limited experience (since 2019), the rock salt is the only thing that can melt through snow and ice build up. But it also acts like a bead blaster on fenders and undercarriage.

Wouldn't it be more fun to just have flamethrowers on the front of your cars ? And save the salt for Margaritas.

Think you will find that this is magnesium chloride, less corrosive than salt.

In minnesota, where it used to be regularly too cold for salt to really do much, they would just put sand down. Worked fine for in town.

That's what a lot of places used to do . . . . back when people were expected to know how to drive in all weather conditions.

Now salt is the "miracle cure". Reduces accidents since so few drivers actually know how to judge tire grip. Or worse, how to control their cars if they get out of line -- so Stability Control to the rescue.

i think that is what i was getting at as a dumb aussie.

we get snow here.
but only in the alpine regions.
they use sand.

there is a limit to that electronic stuff.
as the evidence shows down here.
roll over stats have gone through the roof in recent years.
SUV drivers armed with ABS, ESC, etc have little or no sense anymore of vehicle limits? mobile ortho shoes with high centres of gravity get into situations where the electronics hand off control back to driver, "i give up, good luck, see you when its all over".

Looks like my roads, brined before and salted during....all for 1” of snow.

Oh yeah, they did nothing when we had 6” a couple weeks ago, ughhh

Lol… that was a good time! We got a solid 12” here in Waldorf.
I never get tired of seeing all the creative ways people crash their cars on snow pack roads.
The day after That storm I was driving to work and I saw a Lincoln Navigator that someone drove into a bar ditch and tried to drive out with the entire passenger side slammed against the side of the ditch. They plowed about 20yds until they buried the car lol…

it might save lives, but it costs plenty in corrosion of just about everything, including road beds, bridges, utility lines, and of course, vehicles. Other materials also provide benefit with less impact. Material cost might be more, but total cost is less.

I grew up in Northeastern Ohio. I remember shoveling the nasty white stuff out of the driveway. I hated every minute of it. If I could move farther south, I would.

And that nasty white stuff is on the ground next to the road.

What sucks is the weather forecast is calling for freezing rain going to snow for Wed/Thu timeframe. I can work from home, so I won't be going out at all.

It was 70 degrees here on Sunday. We took both 914s out and drove them. But they are back in the garage waiting until after the freeze to come out.

In New Mexico we just toss dirt on the road in the summer and hope it stays till winter

As much as I hate salt...sand might be worse since it doesn't dissolve and just stays there on the side of the road, waiting to blast our paint when the wind blows it back into the street.

+1, great idea

there is a place in aus to drive on salt with a smile.

looking forward to getting there soonish.
bonus = hundreds of ks of dirt/sand/dust before you hit the salt.



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Shame Burt Munro had to come all the way to Bonneville then! What a legend!

We still use salt because it's effective and cheaper than anything else. There are alternatives but they all cost a LOT more money. (I'm a roads supervisor ). We use brine to help the salt get started at it's job and to stop the salt from bouncing off the road when it comes out of the truck (pre-wet). Salt won't work unless it's wet, and won't work at all below about -12 or -14 c . Sand is okay up to a point and works at colder temperatures, but needs to be applied at a much higher rate which means more trucks on the road. Also needs to be stored inside so it doesn't freeze solid, means we need a huge building to put it in. And yes, we DO have to try to make the roads idiot proof to avoid lawsuits. Lots of times I drive to work just fine before the plow/salt trucks are out, but there's always people going in the ditch.

you are right, burt was a legend.
also a kiwi. more inventive than aussies were - by sheer necessity.

about 50 years ahead of his time.
its amazing that he got himself to bonneville back then.
almost more amazing than the bike he built.

sadly we are both now nations of soft handed consumers.

Often times the idiots with 4WD, or just plain bad drivers. Always a good rule to keep it slow whenever snow/ice is on the roads

When I lived in Washington DC we had an inch or so of snow and an 80s blazer slid sideways into my opel gt while I was sitting at a stop light. The driver said "I don't understand what happened! It is 4 wheel drive!"

Luckily my opel was fine, her door wasn't so lucky.

Having lived full time in AZ for the last 2 years, after 70 years in Iowa, I sure don't miss that!! Used to hate it when they'd start spraying the roads with that sh*t 2-3 days BEFORE a snowstorm was predicted...

But we have a LOT of rocks on the roads here, and most cars go through a lot of windshields unfortunately.

I am in Northern AZ part time where in the Winter it's very common to have snow.

Mostly they use ground pumice as salt is a killer for road surfaces and concrete long term...(I'm a civil engineer). The snow is short lived there genereally but sometimes NOT in my north facing driveway. When I resruface the driveway I'm looking into a paver systems and some type of radiant heating to de-ice it.

As everyone may know by now, bridge appraoches are notorious for icing becuase of the massive thermal mass of the concrete which tends to ice once it reaches gradient temperature. The uses of clorides like salt do massive damages to those approaches and particulary steel structures with concrete decks built back in the seventies.

It's cheap yes but long term the true cost of degradation of roads and bridges is in the billions of dollars.

Be responsible and learn how to drive. I don't expect anyone else to pay for my negiligence in that regard.

One of the reasons I got the Macan P car....AWD on demand. It's an amazing handler in snow with the right tires.

You know you're in Merica' right?

I know...your'e right...didn't always used to be that way...but I'm old and becoming more idealistic every day.


I want to do what I want.....and get somebody else to pay for it.

Sign of the times.

Remember, Mechanical engineers make weapons, electrical engineers make guidance systems, civil engineers make targets.

In the early spring here in Wisconsin, say late May, it is time to consider taking the 914s out for a drive. But how do you know it is safe from salt. I sometimes look for some sand on the road and taste it. Sure I could measure conductance or refraction or something but taste is simple.

Usually, even during the winter, we get at least a couple days of drenching rain to wash away the road salt. Not so this winter (so far); I haven't had a chance to get the 914 out of the garage.

If one drives a 914 on salted roads, would the best protection be to hose off the car (esp. underside) after driving?

Funny worn, I think you've been cooped up to long. Stop eating the sand. Mark

yes - there has been a few bridge collapses in recent years in the USA.
salt and reinforced concrete or steel are not best of friends.
that all catches up as you say.
then its a very big bill and a lot of pressure on govt. budgets to fix it.
these things have a habit of starting to all fail at the same time too.

awd makes a lot of sense in northern regions of the usa.
(makes sense anywhere when you think about it).

Had to laugh when I read that


I thought the same...or find a good de-wormer.

Traffic control is all about liability. The Northeastern US uses a lot of salt because....it's a cheap way to de-ice and they have prolonged periods of freezing and sometimes subfreezing temperature.

In AZ...they put a sign well before the bridge warning you....and if you didn't know this about bridge approaches during freezing periods then you should. Normallly the periods of freezing temps don't last as long, so they use crushed pumice instead. Not great for the windshield though, but it's better for the roads and bridges.


That bridge that failed recently wasn't designed to last more than 50 years and the City that was in charge of it ---Pittsburg...likely didn't have the money to pay to fix it.

We'll see what the NTSB comes up with.

I'ts just blind luck nobody was killed.