Suspension swap, Swap 911/930 front suspension to my 914 Options

[spyder9014]

What are the benefits of using 911/930 front suspension on a 914.
I have installed gas shocks, turbo tie rods but I have seen it recommended to use the 930 front suspension. Is this just to get the brakes or is this for struts/brakes/torsion bars?
If I upgrade the calipers and rotors will it be just as good as a complete swap?

[Eric_Shea]

Thanks Ricky for the explanation.

Again, as evident with our new Friend 'Army Dude', I think you're causing a lot of unnecessary confusion.

Folks, 911 front suspension components will simply bolt on a 914. It is 'highly' advisable to get 914 inserts for your 911 front end. To take it further:

For narrow body 914's, I like what the factory used:

69-73 911T front suspension - These were generally set up for through body sway bars. They have 3" mounting ears for 911 M-Calipers Which are all you will need with the tire packages that can fit under the narrow bodied car. These will accept 'any' 914 strut out there (Boge, Koni, Bilstein, KYB, etc.)

For wide body 914's, I like what the factory used:

67-73 911S (Koni or Bilstein) front suspension - As above but are set up for 3.5" caliper mounts (A or S-Calipers). These calipers are good for much larger tire contact patches and are better suited for HP up to 240-250. With these you will have to special order custom valved inserts.

QUOTE

All along I was trying to send the message that the off-the-shelf 911 INSERTS are not ideal for 914´s. This is very true.

Hmmmm... that's not what you said here:

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911 front struts are not the best option for a 914 because you can only install inserts that are designed for 911 chassis dynamics

Regarding the INSERT statement, (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) for the most part. Keep in mind, you experienced "Bilsteins" valved for a VERY heavy late model 911SC. I believe a set of Koni's for an early 911 turned full soft (where I keep all my Koni's) would be 'fairly' indistinguishable. Bilsteins are great shocks but they are a set-em and forget-em 'Sport' shock. For that reason alone, I like Koni's.

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Isn’t it also misleading to say that a 911 front end swap is just a bolt-on upgrade? This statement sounds to me that you swap the front end, and that’s it.

The front suspensions are virtually identical in their form and function. I don't think most buyers buy these expecting plug and play improvements. I think they want 5-lug hubs and possibly bigger brakes. I agree, there's probably a large contingent that just swap them out and call it a day, but, I think there's an equally large contingent that know what's going on with inserts... you simply don't run 911SC Bilstein inserts on a 914 (as you now know).

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After all this interchange, however, I would recommend anyone contemplating this upgrade to avoid 911 suspension setups with Koni or Bilstein struts. I myself made the mistake of buying a 911SC setup with Bilstein struts just because I did not know.

This is where we'll have to agree to disagree. What you bought was an SC front end. I don't think the purchase was a mistake. I think leaving the 'ultra-wrong' 911SC Bilstein inserts in there was a mistake (as you yourself attest to). For 1/2 the money spent on 914 strut and spindle mods you could have had the proper inserts to slide into your struts.

This is also where I think it becomes misleading. For people who want or need 3.5" brake spacing, these Koni or Bilstein front ends are a 'very' viable solution. These struts (struts only) can be purchased for $250-$300 a 'pair' all day long. Complete 911 front ends go for anywhere from $200-$600... not $1,200, hell, you can buy a sawzall roller SC on the birdie board for $3k, why would anyone pay $1,200 for the front suspension. Someone recently asked about a front end from Oklahoma Foreign at the wonderful $1,200 price and the replies came back unanimous "RUN AWAY".

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I chose the easiest route, and the one that would get me where I wanted.

Again, I don't want to belabor or nit-pick but I think the easiest route would be to buy some revalved inserts for 1/2 the cost. You chose a route that got you what you wanted. Here's some real world cost examples that should be fairly easy to beat:

Yours with the cost of struts thrown in:
Labor $750
SC strut cores $250
Total $1,000

-vs.-

911T Struts $250
Your 914 inserts $free
Total $250

-or-

911T front end $400
Your 914 inserts $free
Total $400

-or-

911T Struts $250
Koni 914 inserts $275
Total $525

-or-

911T front end $400
Koni 914 inserts $275
Total $675

-or-

SC Struts $250
Proper Inserts $350
Total $600

-or-

SC Struts $250
Proper Inserts $350
Chris Foley Raises the Spindle $225
Total $825

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When I replaced the Bilstein 911SC inserts with the Koni 914 inserts, there was a lot of improvement in ride quality and the handling of the car.

Ya think (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol3.gif) I really think this is the issue here Ricky. People need to understand that you had a bad experience using Bilstein 911SC inserts on your 914. I would add… of course you did.

Again, Ricky, not bashing you... to 'me', your previous posts are extremely misleading. They read like "If you bolt a 911 front end on your teener you'll have a harsh ride". I agree wholeheartedly that the inserts should match the car not the strut, so, if this thread will help more people understand that then it's a good thing. I already had someone PM me last night worried about buying a 914 now that has a 911 front end on it... this is the wrong message to send.

I also think that 80% of the people out there can find some 911T struts and bolt them on their car for less than 1/2 what you paid (maybe even 1/4) and have all the benefits they might be looking for (5-lug, vented rotors, m-calipers, cheaper rotors, larger spindles, beefier bearings).

On to your brake question:

Your A-Calipers up front are overkill but the “system” you have with the T-fitting and the vented rear calipers should be “OK”. You are seriously on the edge of what I would call too little rear brake but that’s much better than too much rear brake.

Options:

* Keep your eye out for a set of –6 calipers.
* Watch for Marty’s “Spot-Caliper” to hit the market and then move to 911 rear M-Calipers.
* Perform the 911 hand-brake conversion (whew… find cables, find early hand-brake assemblies, grind, etc.)

I would keep what you have and have a friend video tape some parking lot stops. See if your rears are even in the game. You’ll want them to lock up after the fronts for sure.

(that's the end of my new, New Testament... I promise) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)