Eugene thread Options

[Aaron Cox]

i closed it.

paper copy printed out. all words are final. have IP's.

will be turned into authorities....

[Eric_Shea]

Now, I have provided Craig and Eric with more information about me than a mortgage application, all in good faith, all without them asking for
it.

This is true. Carl provided both Craig and I with all his personal contact information the minute I PM'd him back with the address of Eugene Belyarchik. I even got a prompt phone call from Carl stating there "We have a big problem".

I think the best way to look at this is, everyone is a suspect. Even Carl states that in his recent post. "I'd hate to say it, but I don't think I can be ruled out as a suspect." I've always had that view. Not to single out Carl but not to rule anyone out. With the Opening of the "Con-Man" post a few days ago and the extension of this post there's more information flowing in via the thread and PM's so naturally, a few questions that have come up.

Carl, this will be directed at you. I'm sorry. At this point I hold no malice I just need some answers. You have been very consistent with the grey 914 and the 908 story and I'm honestly hoping you have answers for these questions. If you do, it will help direct our efforts... seriously. Please help us here:

1. "I have provided Craig and Eric with more information about me than a mortgage application" - True. If I was pissed at PayPal because they reversed a $2,100 laptop charge and Craig and Eric contacted me the same problem (PayPal reversals) one of the first things out of my mouth would be "Those SOB's at PayPal... they did the EXACT same thing to me last month!" I would have dropped PayPal in a heartbeat. In fact, because they're not honoring a claim against a verified address, I'm changing my sites ecommetry to "Authorize.net" In full disclosure, you failed to mention a crime with the exact same MO happened to you. Not until Mike brought it up did we hear about that. Seems substancial. Why?

2. "I have provided Craig and Eric with more information about me than a mortgage application" - Again, with the exception that the EXACT same thing happened to James, Mike and the Club and you made good on those. This didn't come out until almost two weeks later in the con-man thread. Mike came forward. James came forward. I understand that you can't or shouldn't be responsible for purchase that "Eugene" took off your porch but... Again, in full disclosure mode, I would have said "James, Mike and even the club got hit with reversals as well... they were unrelated but..." Right from the start I would have mentioned the laptop incident and the fact that "other" vendors on the club and the club itself got hit. Even if they were so-called "unrelated". They're related now as Club vendors and PayPal reversals. This didn't come out until the new con-man thread. All told, you've been involved in 4 PayPal reversals up to the time Craig and I spoke with you, 3 from club vendors, yet you never mentioned them. Why?

3. Why come back? I'm the thief. I've gotten away with this elaborate scam. Sorry... I'm outta here. I'm gonna lay low. Maybe watch the club and laugh at your sorry asses while you try to track me down. This may not be a question for you but one for the masses. Why? Why would I come back? Why would I steal Carl's identity? How would I steal Carl's identity? I realize that boards like InVision and V-Bulletin can be riddled with security issues but... why pick you? Can anyone tell me how the system was compromised? IP addresses can be made to look like anything, especially by a fairly knowledgeable propeller head. How and why did this Eugene get in the 914Club InVision system?

4. The classified ad has really prompted this. This One. As I see it, that post is how Eugene got all his stuff (or a majority of it) and you state; "Eric that was my ad. Doesn't look good for me, but yeah, it was my ad." You're right. This doesn't look good for you. To me it reads 1/2 Carl and 1/2 Eugene.

Carl wanted a club badge - Carl got a club badge and even paid for it with a check when PayPal reversed his charges.

In the ad you say to Craig - "boxster, put me down for everything on your list. I need the eyebrows, doors, housings, everything apart from the pivots." This is in Post #12. Now these are "Eugene" purchases.

It looks like "you" ordered Sergio's engine lid from this WTB ad. (Post #5). You claim in post #58 on this thread "Sergio says "my roommate" ordered a GT lid from him, then per usual stiffed him $260. Sergio is, understanably, pissed." So it now seems this is a "Eugene" purchase.

This "is" your ad. There are items through out this WTB ad that "you" requested. These are now being claimed as "Eugene Purchases". Why?

Carl, please make sense of this for me (and others). You seem like a good guy and very forthright. You can either run away from all of this, which in itself will answer a lot of questions or... you can camp out and give us some explanations and solutions or at least tie up some of these loose ends. This would really help us concentrate our efforts.

If I were you reading this, I'd probably be fuming right about now, especially if I was innocent. Please. Take some time and let us know your side.

[Carl_Payne]

(Carl edited this on 3 Nov 06 to remove some uninvolved pronouns.)



I will address your issues.

If I was pissed at PayPal because they reversed a $2,100 laptop charge and Craig and Eric contacted me the same problem (PayPal reversals) one of the first things out of my mouth would be "Those SOB's at PayPal... they did the EXACT same thing to me last month!"

I did! To you, to everyone I know!

I would have dropped PayPal in a heartbeat.

I did! Take a look at the WTB ad, I even say as much!

In full disclosure, you failed to mention a crime with the exact same MO happened to you. Not until Mike brought it up did we hear about that. Seems substancial. Why?

That's not true at all, and these two comments upset me because you actually heard this story from me the day I called you. How many times did we talk on the phone that weekend? This was no secret at all, I told Mike L. WAAAY before you and I ever crossed paths because THAT was the Paypal unwind that cost me on the badge, bolts and Rennshift.

Also, it wasn't the exact same MO. I hadn't used my eBay account in MONTHS, seriously months, and I had 2 extra Dell laptops and decided to sell one and trade one for a plasma cutter. I put the only unopened XPS on eBay and someone wrote me saying, "What is your buy-it-now price?" I said it depended on the shipping costs, but I would certainly do $2,000 plus whatever the shipping is. They came back and said, "So if I Paypal you $2,100 you'd end the auction now and sell it to me?" Foolishly, I agreed. Shipping was $47. A MONTH LATER, after I'd already spent the money, they reversed payment. Now, the buyer was in Dublin, CA. Should we assume it was Sergio? I never even considered that. Never.

Now, when you come over, you are welcome to examine the Miller Spectrum 375 plasma cutter, still new in its unopened box, still labeled *TO ME* with a UPS label, then you can call who bought it, contact them and verify I traded the other Dell laptop for it. You are WELCOME TO, I asked what I could do to help and I stand behind that.

The thing is, this is IRRELEVANT! I can't bitch at you about a laptop sale. It has nothing to do with anything we're discussing. The two Porsche items I purchased were IMMEDIATELY repaid. Immediately. I get no credit for that? I get no credit for hitting up Mike Lezniak IN ADVANCE and saying, "You know, I think I'm about to get screwed by Paypal over a laptop deal gone south. If that happens and you get your bolts payment reversed, please let me know and I'll make good."

Ask Mike. ASK HIM! At least 2 weeks before anything Eugene-like happened, I watched in horror as the only two Porsche things I've bought since selling the black car to Greg just came apart in my face.

Now, you think that's suspicious? I suppose I see where you're coming from, but I don't think it would be more suspicious than me blathering on and on about what you deem "the exact same MO" happening to me. On top of the irrelevance, it's none of anybody's business. If I had *BOUGHT* the laptop it would be a huge sticking point. If I had RECEIVED the laptop it would be a huge sticking point. I didn't; I sold it. So what? Who cares that I got ripped off? That makes me innocent and free from blame in this case? It would HAVE TO BE in order for me to cite its relevance. The only purchases I made with the laptop income were reimbursed PROMPTLY. End of issue with the laptop.

But I did tell you, Eric, and you weren't the only one I told.

This didn't come out until the new con-man thread. All told, you've been involved in 4 PayPal reversals up to the time Craig and I spoke with you, 3 from club vendors, yet you never mentioned them. Why?

Excuse me? It was ONE reversal. One laptop. As for why, this was covered: it was unrelated and addressed before you and I spoke.

I'm sorry, this is just baffling to me. Perhaps you can help me understand how it is that I as a seller losing money correlates to you as a seller losing money when both of our buyers are different people in different parts of the country. Help me understand how to follow the money from the dude that got my laptop to you. This seems to be your major point of contention, and it doesn't hold water with me.

Why would I steal Carl's identity? How would I steal Carl's identity?

My identity wasn't stolen, my address was, and clearly someone got my password to this site. They deleted a post, and I put it right goddamn back. If I deleted it posing as Eugene, why would I put it back within an hour of being locked out of my own account? Was it or was it not the EXACT same post, VERBATIM? I mean, I can see deleting a post because a WORD incriminated me, deleting the word, then reposting the post, I guess I can see that. I can see doing so to edit the post and then of the differences say, "Well, the version I had saved differed from the original because I made some edits in the website that weren't in what I saved and I forgot what those were. Sorry, but at least we got the meat of it."

I realize that boards like InVision and V-Bulletin can be riddled with security issues but... why pick you?

Again, we've been over this. None of this happened until I sold the black car to Greg. Eugene came to look at it. He lives close by. I may have mentioned 914world.com, my UID--the license plate on my car says DRDSTNY; how hard do you really think it is? I believe I was picked for proximity alone.

Can anyone tell me how the system was compromised? IP addresses can be made to look like anything, especially by a fairly knowledgeable propeller head. How and why did this Eugene get in the 914Club InVision system?

He didn't have to. He had my username and was therefore halfway in. He knew I had a 914 and he was therefore half absolved.

You're right. This doesn't look good for you. To me it reads 1/2 Carl and 1/2 Eugene.

Sorry you feel that way. I have been completely up-front with you, gave you every method to reach me, explained my victimization and when the damning finger points my way...I didn't have an alibi? Wait, should I have? Should I have just said nothing until pressed to answer? I believe in saying "this doesn't look good for me," I said, "Damn, this sucks, I feel for you man, and I understand your suspicions, do what you need to do. I hope you recognize cooperation when you see it."

Carl wanted a club badge - Carl got a club badge and even paid for it with a check when PayPal reversed his charges.

Irrelevant. You're confusing the jury. Has nothing to do with ads, you, Craig, Sergio, anything. You're also conveniently leaving out the fact that I PAID WITH MY OWN PAYPAL ACCOUNT. YOU guys got shafted by some fuckhole Eugene off *HIS* Paypal account. When mine went south, I made good. I don't know any Eugene, Yevgney whateverhisnameis. I made good BEFORE this bullshit Eugene thing, not after. Not under coercion. Not because I thought someone might get suspicious, but BEFORE, because THAT'S WHAT HONEST PEOPLE DO.

In the ad you say to Craig - "boxster, put me down for everything on your list. I need the eyebrows, doors, housings, everything apart from the pivots." This is in Post #12. Now these are "Eugene" purchases.

No, not true at all, now you're being vindictive. Now you are REALLY going over the line. Eugene did NOT purchase "everything but the pivots."

Yes, I wanted everything on that list. However, Eugene bought Euro turn signal housings, two seat tracks, front and rear trunk hinges or springs or struts (can't recall) and THAT'S IT. Craig told me so. Craig did NOT sell Eugene the headlights, eyebrows, doors and housings. Why did you leave THAT out? Seems suspicious to me that the stuff I'm missing was not sold, but the stuff I'm NOT missing DID get sold.

It looks like "you" ordered Sergio's engine lid from this WTB ad.

Really? The same way I "ordered" 5-lug conversion parts or the way I "ordered" headlight buckets, eyebrows and housings? I asked about them, I got an answer, I wrote it off my list, and when I discovered AA sells the mesh to do it yourself for $55, I passed on the $250 lid because I already have a lid, a welder, and some extra "propeller head."

I did not ORDER Sergio's lid, I asked about it. The WTB ad is not a receipt or even an order form.

This "is" your ad. There are items through out this WTB ad that "you" requested.

Yep. Well, some of it. The thing is, this is VERY circumstantial. Not everything on the list has been appropriated by the thief, and not everything the thief appropriated was on the list...like YOUR FUCKING TRAILING ARMS which are the most expensive thing stolen to date at, what, $820??

These are now being claimed as "Eugene Purchases". Why?

No idea. You do a disservice by implying to the forum that everything I asked about was bought by Eugene. Please explain the MAJOR discrepancies like the headlight situation and maybe I'll come to understand your question as being anything but antagonistic.

I looked for some new parts, some reproduction parts, and some used parts, making a nice neat shopping list. Once I knew who offered them, I scratched them off my list. I did not order any new or repro parts, because those would always be there by the time I needed them. USED stuff I bought right away, and most of that was Bruce Stone, paid in cash, in person, in two trips. I went as far north as FRESNO for the doors because they were free, I went back to UTAH, Eric, for the engine, 4-lug wheels (my car had none), struts, 4-fucking-bolt trailing arms and 4-bolt front struts. Why the HELL would I go to the trouble of driving 1,400 miles, round trip, for parts of a lesser quality than what you shipped to my house for FREE if I knew they were there, or even coming soon?

Why do I need to explain this? Why does it matter? I have a history of doing things very spur of the moment and driving long distances to get exactly what I want. When I'm done, I'm done, I'm not in this to make a profit. I gave you references of Tony and Greg, both here on 914club, BOTH of whom have bought NICE, RUNNING, DRIVING cars from me for $1,800 or less. Does that sound like someone who's in this for money? I sold Bob Mitchell's car at an $800 loss inside of 6 months of buying it. Is that a thief at work?

When Ron came out and PPI'd the car for Greg, I gave him a TRUCKLOAD of parts absolutely free as a gesture of camaraderie. I gave him a sideshifter trans core. I gave him a right side mirror, I gave him instrument clusters and a BUCKET of small parts, just to say "thanks for coming over." Is that what a thief does? I always thought it was what we did with each other on this list- STUPID FUCKING ME!

Doesn't it seem suspicious to you that I didn't mention my good will to Ron? Doesn't it seem suspicious to you that I didn't tell you what any of my references would say? Doesn't it seem suspicious to you that I left every contact open-ended, so you could do your own investigation and ASK them and come to your own conclusions without me tainting what I thought they'd say?

YOU DIDN'T ASK THEM! You didn't ask anybody! I gave you permission to investigate, and you DIDN'T! You're pointing the bone at me! You're dragging me through the mud out here in an open forum and you expect me to snap my fingers and make sense out of all this? I CAN'T!

Now I'm pointing it back at you, Eric, right where you fucking live. Go to <a place> in American Fork, 10 goddamn minutes from your house in Sandy. Ask for <a person>. Sit down with <a person> and ask him to describe me. Ask him how long he's known me. Ask him if I'm capable of theft. FUCKING ASK HIM! You won't believe me, ASK HIM! Ask him if I told him you were coming to meet him! Ask him if he knows anything about this! Ask him about my position on racism. Ask him about my political views. Ask him about my faith. Ask him what I do with my spare time, and who I spend it with, and why.

I can't make it any fucking easier for you, Eric, short of having <a person> go to YOUR house but then he'd know why you two needed to talk and that would spoil the integrity of the interview.

ANYONE who knows me KNOWs I would not do this, and you don't know me, I get it, so TALK TO SOMEBODY WHO DOES! Talk to people here on this board who've had past dealings with me! Rack up the tally, did I make a good deal, did I do what I said I'd do, did I make good on something gone bad, did I buy what I said I'd buy? OH CRAP, I didn't buy that $130 goddamned Treo Tom Tom because I was TOO BUSY talking with YOU at all hours of the night trying to HELP you find the fucker that is WALKING ON MY BACK.

FUCK, you missed out a GOLDEN opportunity here! Greg made two payments on the black car, the first one was with PAYPAL! He made the payment from 1200 miles away without EVER meeting me, without EVER knowing who I was or where I lived, and, like MAGIC, the thing he paid for was here when he arrived! And it was a GODDAMNED CAR!!! Would a thief conduct that sale appropriately and then do a TOTAL 180 within 45 days of that? With the same audience watching? With the same Paypal fiasco?

BMXerror told me about a thread on this board. The thread, he said, was about a scammer living in Victorville. BMXerror lives in Hesperia, the next city over by a few blocks. BMXerror said, "thought maybe you could help because you live in Victorville."

Me? OK, why not.

I see your post, I think, "Geez, that sucks," and I think about last year's swap at Glenn's where he gave my 3 kids free donuts and sold me a NICE mirror for $5 and I thought about Ron coming over on Greg's behalf to do a FREE PPI on a car he had no vested interest in and I thought about Bruce Stone who sold me the best sideshifter I've ever owned for $150 and fronted me $10 worth of parts and I think, "Man, I really want to be a part of this group, I want to surround myself with people like this in life, so hey, Eric, how can I help you?"

I wrote YOU. Doesn't that seem suspicious? Doesn't that seem like the hallmark of a guy getting ready to rip you off? I mean, after all, if someone said "Hey, Eric Shea got ripped off by a guy in Victorville," wouldn't it have made more sense for me to say, "Yeah, too bad, I'll drop him a PM" and then NOT DO SO? Doesn't it seem suspicious that I wrote you asking where the guy lived so I can go pick up your parts? Doesn't it? DOESN'T IT, ERIC? What the FUCK? Why would I INVITE disaster if I KNEW I had done something wrong? You would NEVER HAVE KNOWN ME if I hadn't written you! NEVER! You MIGHT have come to my house looking for your parts, but if I were a thief I would have answered the door, feigned stupidity and turned you away. You'd see no Porsches anywhere, 3 Audi Quattros and an Explorer, and the goddamned police would have been NO HELP because you don't get this fucking good without KNOWING what it takes to get away with it. If I had been the thief you would not have ANY reason to believe I had a 914 or was on 914world.com. I wouldn't have let you in, I would have denied having a 914, I would have denied ever hearing the name Eugene, and the cops wouldn't be able to do squat based solely on your accusation. You would have left empty handed and $300 more broke from the gasoline.

But if your trigger were any lighter, you would not have posted asking for help in Victorville, you would have just gone to Eugene's address looking for parts
and I would have heard about this disaster then, but I would have invited you in then and there BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE DO HERE ON 914CLUB.COM and you would have seen for yourself and you would KNOW ME and at least THEN you wouldn't NEED to talk to people I refer you to because you would have KNOWN.

I CALLED YOU, Eric, I had to dial 411 and ask for your number because you did not give it to me, I CALLED YOU! I did not know ANY way to impart my innocence to you so I gave you my address, my employer, references, everything. I GAVE THAT TO YOU UP FRONT. You did not ask, I recognized the severity of the situation and I wanted you to know I had NOTHING to hide. I STILL DON'T! I PM'd you asking how I could help with the Victorville scam situation, told you I lived in Victorville and the SECOND you gave me my own address I was IN THE CAR, on the way to the PD, calling YOU on the phone!! I WENT TO THE POLICE BEFORE YOU DID!

Doesn't that seem suspicious? Doesn't that seem like something a criminal would do? Call you, minutes after you gave the address? Going right into the belly of the beast where badges and guns and handcuffs live? Doesn't it seem suspicious that a thief who KNOWS DAMN WELL what address you would give would ASK FOR IT? Would even IMPLY he lives in Victorville? Would even offer to help? Yeah, criminals are WELL KNOWN for their openness and willingness to work with law enforcement.

WHY would I give you my address if I ripped you off? WHY would I give you my employer so you could contact me in the middle of the day (because I don't do personal email at work, you KNOW THAT TOO because you've gotten one from me at work and you know what they look like)? Why would I make sure you could reach me by AIM if, like this moment, I am underneath Downtown Los Angeles and unable to answer my cell phone? Wy the HELL would I tell you where I'm going, what I'm doing, what I do for a living when you can reach me, when you can't, if I ripped you off? Why would I take a call from you while I was in LAS VEGAS celebrating my 40th birthday with my WIFE, PEOPLE WHO *_KNOW_* ME, AND A FERRARI F40? Why the hell would I bother?? Doesn't it seem suspicious that I was in Las Vegas TWELVE HOURS AFTER WE SPOKE ON THE PHONE? Doesn't it seem suspicious that I called you up on the phone, full well knowing that the weekend of my LIFE was happening the next day, to tell you how to reach me? WHY THE HELL WOULD I DO THAT if I were ripping you off? I could have waited until Monday to call you or return your PM. Be honest here: did you EXPECT such a quick response, or were you thinking it might have been Monday before you heard anything?

I conduct myself properly. I am proud of who I am, and I have no regrets about giving you all that information. I don't fault you for thinking me guilty, I said as much, but you cannot expect me to sit in a corner, suck my thumb, and hope you just go away.

You don't KNOW ME, Eric, and that's the problem. In as short a time span as possible, I tried to show you who I am, but you can't trust a man's self-assessment: character is what people say about you behind your back. You never asked anyone who knows me to talk about me behind my back. And, frankly, I have no way to prove to you that I did not do this, because I swiftly and repeatedly acknowledge that it looks like I did. You don't HAVE to believe me, but it would really help just this once.

If I were you reading this, I'd probably be fuming right about now, especially if I was innocent. Please. Take some time and let us know your side.

You have no idea. You REALLY have no idea.