Any Info on this Ebay Motor builder schantzmd, Good or Bad for the $$$$ Reliability? Options

[Jake Raby]

Jake takes time to provide additional machine work and quality control work to ensure that all the parts meet his standards, but he is not the manufacturer of parts, nor is he the only vendor on earth.

A guy who owns a shop in CA can also build a motor...

I am in no way trashing Jake, but for gods sake, he is not the first guy who ever built a motor, nor the first vendor to ever build a type 4 motor.

I'll not forget those statements.
Its not about building a Type 4, it's about taking the engine to the engine to a level that more people can build them at home with confidence. We sell more engine kits that turn key engines. I have developed a program that takes people off the street with ZERO experience and gives them the opportunity to build an engine up to 200HP with success on the first attempt(for the majority).. Hell the program even includes tools for those that don't own a tool box as an option!

Anyone can build an engine, but the development of the support program to assist others and their successful attempts is another story. You should try it sometime and maybe you'd understand.

My success speaks for it's self... Not many companies are expanding right now or have given their Employees pay increases. The program has succeeded because it's followers have shared the same success and that can't be argued with.

Over time the turn key engine program will be phased out completely with all focus being on kits, further development and more DVDs and directives to support the assemblers of these engines..

Ga Dan,
You are local to us so take advantage of that. Call me and set up a time that you can come by and see my facility. We are in the most beautiful part of the state and there are lots of things to do here for the whole family.

I'll show you exactly what goes into the design of an engine package and take you through all the steps that the engine sees during its creation and evaluation.. You don't have to buy anything or even be serious to come take a peak at what happens at Aircooled Heaven.

[r_towle]

Jake takes time to provide additional machine work and quality control work to ensure that all the parts meet his standards, but he is not the manufacturer of parts, nor is he the only vendor on earth.

A guy who owns a shop in CA can also build a motor...

I am in no way trashing Jake, but for gods sake, he is not the first guy who ever built a motor, nor the first vendor to ever build a type 4 motor.

I'll not forget those statements.

OK, but if you are holding me up to some unattainable politically correct standard....geez man have a beer. I complimented you...and made sure I stated that I am not trashing you in any way....

You dont make pistons.. you buy them like the rest of us.
You take the time to quality control them, possibly change them...but others can and do buy pistons, even if they cant spell.

Have another beer...

The point was, and still is, that this seller might actually be an honest and upstanding citizen with a business that he is trying to feed his family with.
He may have no bad rep, but we dont know that, do we.

I stated in that same post that the potential buyer should contact the seller, hell, maybe he is a shop that build these motor...maybe its his first ever....we just dont know.

I attempted to write my statement in such a way as to not offend, but I guess I failed...now open one more and have a beer.

Rich

[McMark]

Only two opinions I'll register:

1. I've never had a good experience with the 009.
2. I'd never put a FRAM filter on a motor.

If I were looking into buying this motor I would ask for a detailed run down of EXACTLY what was done to the heads. I would ask what factors were considered when choosing the cam. I wouldn't assume that this motor is a grenade, but it's a significant purchase and there are a lot of factors that can go wrong.

[Chris Hamilton]

What filters do you use if you'd never use a FRAM one?

[Jake Raby]

Jake takes time to provide additional machine work and quality control work to ensure that all the parts meet his standards, but he is not the manufacturer of parts, nor is he the only vendor on earth.

A guy who owns a shop in CA can also build a motor...

I am in no way trashing Jake, but for gods sake, he is not the first guy who ever built a motor, nor the first vendor to ever build a type 4 motor.

I'll not forget those statements.

OK, but if you are holding me up to some unattainable politically correct standard....geez man have a beer. I complimented you...and made sure I stated that I am not trashing you in any way....

You dont make pistons.. you buy them like the rest of us.
You take the time to quality control them, possibly change them...but others can and do buy pistons, even if they cant spell.

Have another beer...

The point was, and still is, that this seller might actually be an honest and upstanding citizen with a business that he is trying to feed his family with.
He may have no bad rep, but we dont know that, do we.

I stated in that same post that the potential buyer should contact the seller, hell, maybe he is a shop that build these motor...maybe its his first ever....we just dont know.

I attempted to write my statement in such a way as to not offend, but I guess I failed...now open one more and have a beer.

Rich

I don't drink... Had enough Beer for a couple lifetimes as a Marine..

No, I may not manufacture a piston, but I have designed the pistons that we use, just like most every other part that are used in my engines.

Making derogatory statements and then following them with an LOL or a disclaimer that states "I have said som e things that might piss Jake off, but they weren't meant in that way" may work with some, but not with me.

If you aren't willing to be responsible for what you say, STFU. Period.

[IronHillRestorations]

I thought the 009 would be a dead giveaway, as it's a last resort distributor. You'd only use one of those if that was the last one you had.

I have seen that hyper-whatever term in the past for other pistons, maybe Keith Black?

Maybe the guy is a competent enough mechanic, and maybe that engine would last long enough to serve you, but you asked for opinions and that's what you got!

[r_towle]

Jake, if you knew me personally, you would not take what I say to mean harm.
I am sorry your feeling got hurt, but I never backed down from what I said.

edited to keep the thread on track.

Call the Seller.

Rich

Jake takes time to provide additional machine work and quality control work to ensure that all the parts meet his standards, but he is not the manufacturer of parts, nor is he the only vendor on earth.

A guy who owns a shop in CA can also build a motor...

I am in no way trashing Jake, but for gods sake, he is not the first guy who ever built a motor, nor the first vendor to ever build a type 4 motor.

I'll not forget those statements.

OK, but if you are holding me up to some unattainable politically correct standard....geez man have a beer. I complimented you...and made sure I stated that I am not trashing you in any way....

You dont make pistons.. you buy them like the rest of us.
You take the time to quality control them, possibly change them...but others can and do buy pistons, even if they cant spell.

Have another beer...

The point was, and still is, that this seller might actually be an honest and upstanding citizen with a business that he is trying to feed his family with.
He may have no bad rep, but we dont know that, do we.

I stated in that same post that the potential buyer should contact the seller, hell, maybe he is a shop that build these motor...maybe its his first ever....we just dont know.

I attempted to write my statement in such a way as to not offend, but I guess I failed...now open one more and have a beer.

Rich

I don't drink... Had enough Beer for a couple lifetimes as a Marine..

No, I may not manufacture a piston, but I have designed the pistons that we use, just like most every other part that are used in my engines.

Making derogatory statements and then following them with an LOL or a disclaimer that states "I have said som e things that might piss Jake off, but they weren't meant in that way" may work with some, but not with me.

If you aren't willing to be responsible for what you say, STFU. Period.

[DBCooper]

Jake no one is "against" you and NO ONE has disparaged your ability to build engines. Re-read this entire thread, it NEVER HAPPENED. But not everyone has $12,000 to spend on a turnkey engine to put into his $3000 (or whatever) car, so people NEED to discuss the alternatives. We don't have an option, we HAVE to have these discussions, and it's just not helpful for you to jump in and tell us that if we buy from anyone but you our engines will grenade and everything will be lost.

Look Jake, you may be very very good (no one here has ever said differently) but you aren't the only engine builder out there. There have been a hundred thousand of these cars out on the road over the last forty years, and who knows how many on race tracks. When they were rebuilt almost every one of them was done, for better and for worse, by a builder other than you. We need to be able to say those other builder's names out loud and then talk about them, both good and bad, without being told to STFU. Really. Please.

To preempt the usual "You bully! Don't hurt Jake!" reactions I'd like to point out (once again) that I have never ever said one bad word about Jake's engines.

So can we now get this thread back on track? It's not about Jake, it's about the e-bay engine. The question was does anyone know this guy, have any direct experience with him? If so please speak up. If you don't have any direct experience then there's no need to post, and certainly the best advice given here was from Rich, just give him a call.

[McMark]

What filters do you use if you'd never use a FRAM one?

I stick to Mann/Mahle as my first choice, and NAPA WIX as my second.

[Chris Hamilton]

Look Jake, you may be very very good (no one here has ever said differently) but you aren't the only engine builder out there. There have been a hundred thousand of these cars out on the road over the last forty years, and who knows how many on race tracks. When they were rebuilt almost every one of them was done, for better and for worse, by a builder other than you. We need to be able to say those other builder's names out loud and then talk about them, both good and bad, without being told to STFU. Really. Please.

How dare you talk about other type IV engines. You KNOW they don't work! Time and time again we see people who try to get their engines built elsewhere, and the money ends up getting spent in the end anyways.

Remember if you can't afford one of jakes engines you shouldn't be driving a Porsche. This is the volkswagen mentality I keep seeing everywhere, and I'm sick of it. If you want inexpensive parts you don't deserve a 914!

[Chris Hamilton]

Sarcasm aside, that engine looks like the guy who built it is taking a pretty big loss on it, if it runs as advertised.

[grantsfo]

Ask yourself this question are you willing to pay $5500 plus all costs of install on an unknow motor builder? Will he stand behind the motor like Jake if something goes wrong? Or if motor takes a crap will you be stuck with a hard luck story?

We arent talking small block chevy V8's here. We are talking specialized big bore T4's where stresses are much greater than original design specs - expereince and reputation are everything with T4's. I see big bore VW engines explode all the time. Jake has a much better success rate than anyone I have seen. Do yourself a favor and invest in proven entity. It only takes simple build mistake to lead to a catostrophic failure.

As much as Jake would argue point I dont think he was a proven source of reliable big bore T4's until the past few years. Now he is one of ..if not the best.

Either a kit from Jake with a good builder or a turnkey from Jake is your best investment. I'd also say dont get hung up on displacement. 2056 is a fine motor and will offer great relaibility. Most people really dont know how to use power from bigger motors and you do risk more driveline failures as motor gets bigger. Not to mention if you dont keep motor tuned properly you are more apt to fry a big bore.

I have 35 years of driving T4's and have put over 250,000 miles on these motors since the 70's. Trust me you want somone who is a known entity if you plan to keep the car long term.

This post has been edited by grantsfo: Jul 23 2009, 12:25 PM

[jmill]

I judge a person or company by what it does rather than what it says. Phone calls are great but it's all lip service until something breaks or isn't as advertised. I would want to know what, if any, guarantee or warranty does he give. Whether or not he follows through is another question.

An engine builder/supplier that actually steps up and takes ownership of mistakes is the one that gets my money. Your money is yours to spend.

[MDG]

An engine builder/supplier that actually steps up and takes ownership of mistakes is the one that gets my money. Your money is yours to spend.

Well put. I've never talked to Jake but have certainly read many of his posts here. Cocky? Arrogant? Confidence brimming to overload? Sounds like exactly what I want to hear every time I turn on my ignition. My kind of guy.

And that's why sometime in the next 4 or 5 months I'll be buying from Jake for my '73 2.0. The car had sat in storage for 18 years before I bought it. I can see old repairs on the heads, sketchy looking valves etc., etc. Once the restoration is finished I plan on keeping and driving this one, and my 6, until I can no longer squat low enough to get in them.

And for that I'm not going to bother repairing old repairs; Jake's 2056 that utilizes the stock F1 sounds perfect for what I want - original in appearance, a little more power and better built.

[Chris Hamilton]

Ask yourself this question are you willing to pay $5500 plus all costs of install on an unknow motor builder? Will he stand behind the motor like Jake if something goes wrong? Or if motor takes a crap will you be stuck with a hard luck story?

This very well could be the latter situation, but even if anyone had anything positive to say about this builder, they wouldn't do it now.

This thread went 3 posts before it became a place for a member vendor to slander this seller and advertise their own products.

[MDG]

This very well could be the latter situation, but even if anyone had anything positive to say about this builder, they wouldn't do it now.

Maybe. Maybe not.

But I think you've illustrated how asking a "should I or shouldn't I" type question on an internet forum can shoot off all over the place. People respond with what they are familiar with and so far I haven't seen anyone who knows much of anything about this particular engine builder. If the OP is seriously interested he should do what's been suggested in numerous replies and investigate it. Might turn out to be a great build by a great builder.

What I see in this thread is the common consensus that something as critical as your engine, or who is building your engine, is not something to be taken lightly and the deciding factor may have nothing to do with what may appear as the 'best deal'. Without the proper due diligence, maybe a Buy it Now off Ebay is not the way to go . . . .

[tomeric914]

What filters do you use if you'd never use a FRAM one?

I stick to Mann/Mahle as my first choice, and NAPA WIX as my second.

There are about 8 or so manufacturers of oil filters worldwide. Check out http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/index.html for a nice write-up on oil filters.

Baldwin is my personal choice, part number B163 for the 914.

[Chris Hamilton]

What I see in this thread is the common consensus that something as critical as your engine, or who is building your engine, is not something to be taken lightly and the deciding factor may have nothing to do with what may appear as the 'best deal'. Without the proper due diligence, maybe a Buy it Now off Ebay is not the way to go . . . .

That is definitely true. No disagreement there.

[Jake Raby]

Rich, I don't have many feelings that can be hurt- Trust me...

Anyway..

Ebay is where things end up that generally can't be sold through other avenues effectively... The only things I sell there are used test parts that we no longer have a use for and the only thing I buy there are items that have no function...

I just had an Ebay Vendor in my shop a few minutes ago making an upgrade to an engine for him.. The upgrade hit a snag and I told him that he may have to leave the engine here overnight for intervention.. Here is his response:

"I can't do that, I've already lied to the buyer and told them it was shipped yesterday, you know it all goes down hill once you lie"...

I responded that I just avoid that issue by not telling lies...

I **guess* that he sold the engine on Ebay.. I was able to improvise a fix to make the upgrade work and sent him on his way...

Just an example that literally happened in the last 3 hours... Ebay has been and always will be a risk for both buyers and sellers. I'd never consider selling one of my turn key engines on Ebay, primarily because I know nothing about the buyer.

I seldom get ripped off, maybe twice in my life has someone screwed me and one of those was on Ebay for a 24V Winch for my Pinzgauer that never was shipped.

I agree, give him a call and ask questions: Was it balanced? To what tolerance? What are the bearing clearances? was the case align bored? Did he complete valve train geometry? Have him pop off the valve covers and snap some pics, then post them here...

I like it when people drill me before they buy, because I do the same thing to them... Its a mutual "Interview"

[grantsfo]

I dont see any vendor slander here just good frank discussion. Last I checked this forum was vendor nueteral so isnt it fine for suppliers to tell us why they think their stuff is better? You may not like Jakes style but the guy knows his stuff and points out all the short cuts that many people take.

Honestly I would never trust an unkown ebay engine seller especailly for a T4. However I bought a Boxster engine on ebay. Seller said motor had 18K miles good compression, etc. Motor arrived and it had mud and cobwebs on it. many of parts had been traded with bad parts or were just missing. I got the seller to refund $500 of the original $3000 price tag, but it came with signficant threats from me. That motor is running fine now but it wasnt as advertised and we know it wasnt a 18K mile motor. It cost me about $900 in new parts to make it right. I also knew I would be using this motor short term so I was willing to take a risk. You wont see negative comments from me on that sellers site because he refunded some money but it doesnt warn people in future about his ethics.

This post has been edited by grantsfo: Jul 23 2009, 04:22 PM