V8 guys, Electric water pump?, Is it a solution or asking for trouble Options

[Cheapsnake]

I just saw a thread on a water pump failure and there was a comment about electric wp's being not a good choice due to their lack of longevity, intended mainly for drags and short runs.

I'm just about to install an electric pump in my Rover 3.5 conversion when I saw that, but before I do I'd like some input from those that have had real experience, good and bad with electric pumps. and while you're at it, throw some make and model out there.


Tom

[drive-ability]

My thoughts are if you drive your car every day and really put miles down, it might not last. I have no, experience on the subject however maybe someone can chime in. I don't know of anyone who drives there car everyday and runs an electric unit. There are racers who use them with great success. If I knew they would hold up I would have gone that route. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[Bruce Hinds]

Yeah me too! I've been interested in this for a long time and looked at the electric pumps year ago when they were race/off road only. Now they claim they are also made for street use.

With the progress in electric motors these last few years, I'd imaging they've come along way. I'll be doing a rebuild this winter and definately considering it. I'd think the speed shops should have an idea.

It'll take a big alternator, especially at night.

B

[zymurgist]

Are there any manufacturers using electric water pumps in cars being sold today? I'm not aware of any.

[914junkie]

I'd like to here some solid feedback on this as well. I haven't had any problems with the Renegade belt driven pump on my V8 conversion over the last four years but I don't drive my car all that much. After reading some of the recent threads I wonder how long I have before it fails.
Someone mentioned the electric pumps not being powerfull enough to move the volume of water the long distance it has to travel to the front of the car and through the radiator?
If there is an electric pump out there suitable for our cars I would buy one for sure.
~Paul

[JRust]

Meziere make a nice electric pump. It has a life expectancy of 3000+ hours & pumps 42 gallons a minute. Not sure how much a mechanical pump does? Still don't know which way I am going with mine. I keep thinking electric for my motor as a space issue. My pump sitis on the front of the motor & sticks out ALOT. So an electric makes sense. Considering mine isn't a daily driver. If this electric pump really last 3000+ miles. That would last me for years. If I had even 100 hours in my car this year I would be surprised (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[sean_v8_914]

find 914GT from Tucson, he has one. last time we spoke, he was stil driving it in the summer

[Cheapsnake]

Now I'm thinking, as an option a remote belt driven pump, like a small Jabsco marine. By moving it down it gets more clearance with the slope of the firewall and it's an easy install on the engine xbar. No worries about switches, relays, battery drain. Hmmmm.

BTW, I gutted the stock pump of its impeller and cut the shaft housing down and plugged it off to use as my intake plenum. Saved a good 3" of precious clearance with the firewall. With a lttle ( OK, a lot) of luck I may be able to use the stock tranny mounts.

Tom

[drive-ability]

BTW, I gutted the stock pump of its impeller and cut the shaft housing down and plugged it off to use as my intake plenum. Saved a good 3" of precious clearance with the firewall. With a lttle ( OK, a lot) of luck I may be able to use the stock tranny mounts.

Tom

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) Have any pictures of that ? What engine LT1 ?

[JRust]

Now I'm thinking, as an option a remote belt driven pump, like a small Jabsco marine. By moving it down it gets more clearance with the slope of the firewall and it's an easy install on the engine xbar. No worries about switches, relays, battery drain. Hmmmm.

BTW, I gutted the stock pump of its impeller and cut the shaft housing down and plugged it off to use as my intake plenum. Saved a good 3" of precious clearance with the firewall. With a lttle ( OK, a lot) of luck I may be able to use the stock tranny mounts.

Tom

Stock tranny mounts aint going to cut it. My valve covers would hit as does the bottom pulley. It might work ith the firewall getting massaged a bit. Still I think the bottom pulley will be the issue. There is a cut in my firewall & center tunnel about an inch in & inch down in the center tunnel. If you can figure out the bottom pulley then the top shouldn't be to hard. Can't wait to see what you come up with (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
Should save me some time later. Thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Bruce Hinds]

BTW, I gutted the stock pump of its impeller and cut the shaft housing down and plugged it off to use as my intake plenum. Saved a good 3" of precious clearance with the firewall. With a lttle ( OK, a lot) of luck I may be able to use the stock tranny mounts.

Tom
[/quote]

Careful with that... I know chevy had two pumps... or maybe it was the after market guys developed what the called the "tall pump!" I think the impeller being farther from the port on the heads had less turbulance and better flow. I've replace my renegade impeller once in 25 years and some 80,000 miles and the only problem was the bearing.

B

[marks914]

I stick with the belt-driven for a couple of reasons.
The first is, whoever makes it, really didn't design anything. The working part is a Mopar big block cover and impeller assembly. That is a part that has been engineered and should last a long time. The rear is pretty much a housing that directs the coolant.
I am not really sure what the advantage of the electric pump is. Its not cost, or really weight, just seems like one more thing that could go wrong.

40,000 miles on my v8 conversion and no cooling issues, no pump problems, so I am sticking with it. I am sure it will go some time, but so far so good. Mine is from Desert Hybrids.

Mark

(IMG:http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/4756/2172091620057582025S600x600Q85.jpg)
(IMG:http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/42781/1164677234057582025S600x600Q85.jpg)

[Cheapsnake]

Thanks Jamie, you just dashed my hopes for just ONE job that didn't require hacking and welding. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) However, since you've been there, I have to give some credence to your predictions.

Mark, do you have any more info on that pump you're using? It looks just like what I have in mind, but they are not too common an item.

Drive-ability, the engine is a Rover 3.5L, the LT-1's little aluminum brother. It's actually a British reincarnation of the Buick 215 that Jamie is running. I'm building "the mutt", 3.5 block, 4.0 heads and headers (higher compression, better flow), Buick timing cover, valve covers, intake manifold and oil pan, ...... With a boosted cam, higher compression and a few other tweaks, I'm guessing to be in the 200 - 210 hp neighborhood - just enough to get me in trouble.

I've been promising Jamie pics for some time now but every time I think I can actually finish a job worthy of pics, the mutt throws me a slider. However, I think I'm through the hard stuff and hope to have the tranny mounted this weekend and THAT will be an occasion for pics. Stay tuned.

Tom

[JRust]

Thanks Jamie, you just dashed my hopes for just ONE job that didn't require hacking and welding. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) However, since you've been there, I have to give some credence to your predictions.

I've been promising Jamie pics for some time now but every time I think I can actually finish a job worthy of pics, the mutt throws me a slider. However, I think I'm through the hard stuff and hope to have the tranny mounted this weekend and THAT will be an occasion for pics. Stay tuned.

Tom

It may be doable Tom. I think with the right pulley in front of the harminic balancer you can move it back some. Mine is a dbl pulley with the belt on the outside to line up with my pump. I am sure without my water pump as it sits I could move that back at least another 1/2-3/4". It might work but it will be very close to the firewall there. My alternator also comes through the firewall. Again that is part of the overall belt driven system as it sits. I would still recommend the tranny adapters as it will only make the space issue up front a little easier to deal with. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[computers4kids]

Renegade

$335 WATER PUMP AND ASSEMBLY: Remote mounted water pump assembly mounts to the side of the engine and is belt driven from the harmonic balancer, effectively shortening the overall engine length by approximately 5". Features our Renegade custom, cast aluminum housing, utilizing an aluminum Chrysler style big block impeller. Includes adjustable billet mounting plate, pulley, and coolant fittings. The flow rate of this pump is comparable to many high performance Chevrolet pumps. (Replacement impeller for custom housing = $99.00)

[JRust]

http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Shortie-Water-Pump.htm

I called the company & they are looking into doing this for me. It would probably be better if I get a few as they don't typically work with the publick. WE may need to go through someone who has a shop for it to work with them. I am sure we can get someone with a shop to do the order for us. Anyway this is a thought. I will hear back probably early next week with the holiday. I should have pricing then for it. I'll let you know as I think this may be okay.

That renegade setup might not even be to hard to plumb in as a remote pump? I kind of like the idea of a remote mechanical pump too. Hummm (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[burton73]

As you guys are going length of engine and the firewall. Rod Simpson told me that the fire wall needed to be dented in a place on the driver side of the car where the valve cover will just hit it. He said it does not need that much but around 1/2 inch or so of a dent. I will get a picture of it and measure it before I do my car.

I am still not sure on the pump idea but Bruce has 80,000 miles with only one bearing problem and Mark has no problem with 40,000 miles those are good numbers. Yes they’re where some problems on some of the guys’ cars and that makes me worry but I think I would be more worried something different would fail with the new trick system. .

Bob

[marks914]

Mark, do you have any more info on that pump you're using? It looks just like what I have in mind, but they are not too common an item.

That pump is from Desert Hybrids. Rod Simpson and Renegade use a cast housing.
They all use Mopar big block impeller assemblys to move the water. The back is basically a housing. You could probably make one yourself with if you can weld well (I can't)
So, they are all basically the same pump. None of those companies "designed" the pump itself, its a Chrysler design.

As for reliability, they are just as reliable as any water pump because that is exactly what they are. A mass-produced OEM designed part. I would try to get a new over rebuilt though.

Mark

[charliew]

The lt1 motor has a cam drive waterpump and also has a ignition module on the front of the motor under the waterpump that is real expensive to replace. A belt driven pump will use about 7-10 hp where a electric pump only needs a bigger alternator. The fact that there is no mechanical fan does help reduce the hp drain some. The long water path of the 914 may be a problem for a electric pump.

http://www.thinkauto.com/waterpumps.htm no thermostat it can use a controller

ls7 replacement electric water pump http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_0808_cor...umps/index.html
the article talks about cavitation that can cause impeller breakage.

also uses a controller to control speed and temperature http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productde....asp?RecID=4899

[Cheapsnake]

As you guys are going length of engine and the firewall. Rod Simpson told me that the fire wall needed to be dented in a place on the driver side of the car where the valve cover will just hit it. He said it does not need that much but around 1/2 inch or so of a dent.

If it does become a problem I can take a good 3/4" off the corner of the valve covers and braze in a patch. Works well with stamped steel, cast will be a little more difficult. Denting the firewall sounds like it might be easier but my main concern is being able to get the covers on and off if I need to without dropping the engine. Maybe I'll do both and go for overkill.

Tom

ps: thought I'd have some pics by now but as I was installing my new alternator on my newly fabbed alternator bracket last night I discovered the geometry is wrong. It comes close to going over-center on belt-tightening, also too close for comfort to the headers. Starting from scratch. But it sure was purty.