Kiesel Turbo Sprite., It rapes... literally. Options

[ghuff]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBVVssJwx2Y



(IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

[grantsfo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBVVssJwx2Y



(IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

The reason you wont see any e mod 914's winning Nationals any time soon.

[ghuff]

That car is ridiculous.

[Joe Ricard]

Word. Craziest thing I've seen that once was a real car.

Of course you gotta have skillz to drive such a monster.

[Randal]

Word. Craziest thing I've seen that once was a real car.

Of course you gotta have skillz to drive such a monster.

Perfect solution for the class.

His minumim weight with driver is something like 1700# and the twin turbo only penalizes him 1.4 over 2X the displacement.

So the guy can run a 1500# car with 350hp, maybe more. I'd say he found a sweet spot.

[Britain Smith]

Yep. I have always wondered how my 914 would do with that amount of power! Gotta build a supercharged 911 engine.

-Britain

[Rand]

Article with a couple pics:
http://www.rogues-racing.com/jeff-kiesel-2...ional-champion/

[Randal]

Yep. I have always wondered how my 914 would do with that amount of power! Gotta build a supercharged 911 engine.

-Britain

So you'd have to be be running a twin turbo 2.2 (and a bit) to stay under the 3200 OHC limit with the 1.4 multiplier. Twin turbo's would surely put out 300 or 350 hp, so very competitive.

And we know the guy who could build one... but hopefully faster than the last turbo motor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The only problem would be weight, with the Sprites (at 1600#), if I'm reading the rules correctly.

So maybe they have a 100# advantage.... nothing a good 914 driver couldn't overcome.


References:
page 139 - SCCA rule book

5. For weight designations in EM, Mazda rotary engines are compared
to the piston engines listed (i.e., 3.2L OHC vs. 4.5L OHV).
13B rotary engines should be equated to the 3.2L OHC engines.
13B forced-induction rotary engines (1308cc x 2 x 1.4 = 3662cc)
and all 3-rotor engines shall be grouped with vehicles required to
meet the stated 1800 lb. minimum weight

page 224
MODIFIED CLASS E (EM)
Modifi ed Production and GT cars as follows:
A. Weight (with driver) vs. Displacement
Piston engines up to & including 3200 cc OHC: 1700 lbs
Piston engines up to & including 4500 cc pushrod/OHV: 1700 lbs
2-rotor rotary engines w/ unrestricted porting: 1700 lbs
Piston engines unlimited displacement: 1800 lbs
3-rotor rotary engines w/ unrestricted porting: 1 800 lbs
B. Performance Adjustments
AWD: Add 300 lbs
Modifi ed Tub: Add 50 lbs
C. Weight Bias Adjustment - with driver sitting in the driver’s seat
RWD w/ less than 51% weight on drive wheels: Deduct 50 lb
FWD: Deduct 50 lb
MODIFIED CLASS F

[championgt1]

That is fricken sweet! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[Thorshammer]

The fastest E Mod 914 I have ever seen was built by Bill Crescenzo of Force Racing in Kansas City. The car had double a-arm front suspension, a 2.4 liter supercharged engine with fuel injection (modified Bosch), and the HP output was 325 ish, with an audi automatic (no shit). He ran the car, and so did several other people (Bert Swift, Matt Snow), and I think its best finish was in the late 80's or early 90s (3rd). This was against Temandi's rotary Sprite.

Bills company used to advertise in Pano, his ad was "Can you upshift hard and fast" and he provided synchro modifications for 901 and 915 gearboxes. He is now a master clock maker but still has the car. It can be done, but it would take a supercharged engine and radical use of fiberglass or carbon fiber. Honestly, I think Crescenzo's car was very well developed, but you could do something much better with today's technology.


Erik Madsen

[J P Stein]

Piston engines unlimited displacement: 1800 lbs

A supercharged 3.0 or 3.2ss would do the trick....Got money?
The vid shows me that the Sprite is a point & squirt car. He's catchable.

[Randal]

Piston engines unlimited displacement: 1800 lbs

A supercharged 3.0 or 3.2ss would do the trick....Got money?
The vid shows me that the Sprite is a point & squirt car. He's catchable.

So is the CC limit 3200 for an OHC or something higher? Whatever that number is you have to subtract the 1.4 penalty, so if 3200 is the number, than that looked to be about a 2.2 liter 6.

Just bolt on two turbos like a 930 configuration and now you got 400hp.

I agree with you on the driving.

[grantsfo]

Again why not a Mazda TT? Conversion plate exists. Then build real suspension. You could easily get to same weight as the Sprite. Or how about 400 HP Subi motor?

[ghuff]

Piston engines unlimited displacement: 1800 lbs

A supercharged 3.0 or 3.2ss would do the trick....Got money?
The vid shows me that the Sprite is a point & squirt car. He's catchable.

I noticed that as well, point and shoot for sure. BUT when he did shoot, did you see how fast that thing accelerated? I daily drive a 2800-3000lb car with 300-400whp and the horizon does not blur like that for me.

That turbo rotary was like a rocket, and he did not even have to come out of gear due to the high rev limit........


I want to know what kind of power he is making, and how far up high he carries it on the tach.

My concern with a piston motor of higher displacement is the gobs of torque which usually ends up with wheelspin. Rotaries, and honda motors have less issues with that because they rev high and produce their torque via gears vs. raw motor.


Rotary 914? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)

[ghuff]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To0EZq_poIQ



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3dw9w6SbPk

[Rand]

I want to know what kind of power he is making, and how far up high he carries it on the tach.

Article below says 370hp at the wheels. Car is 1810lbs with driver. I would guess that motor is good for 9k on the tach, but doesn't sound like he's turning it quite that fast.

http://getintoracing.info/2010/01/jeff-kie...o-3109-el-toro/

[jhadler]

Jeff's sprite is a terrifying thing of simplistic beauty. I still loved Tamandli's Fiero though. Basically, a V8 powered Formula Atlantic chassis with a one-piece fiberglass Fiero shell over the top of it. You could visibly see the thing accelerate from a 1/4 mile away.

Amazing what cubic dollars multiplied by time can create...

-Josh2

[byndbad914]

he has what I have and think is key - so much power he never has to shift (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) even tho' I can slam gears with the sequential now, I still do all I can to rely on momentum and torque to get out of corners v. downshift.

At Willow Springs with the 930 trans (read that as broad and high gearing) I would run the whole track in 3rd gear except the long sweeper and front stretch I would go into 4th to get over 140mph. Out here in CO I ran Pueblo in 2nd gear and only 3rd for the front stretch. Makes life really easy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[jhadler]

It's not _just_ the power though. It's that he has a stratospheric redline compared to conventional reciprocating engines. Once he gets on it, he doesn't have to worry about grabbing another gear. In E-Mod and classes like that, the cars tend to follow the simple power philosophy of "laying rubber". If the car can lay down two black streaks of rubber from the exit of one turn to the entrance of the next, then it has enough power. But point-n-shoot won't do it without a suspension under the car, and Kiesel car has a real suspension in it.

The Tunnell machine has absurd power (latest estimates I recall were in the neighborhood of 600+). So much so that the car spends very little time at WOT on a given run.

Expect Bob to give him a run sooner or later. That car only gets faster as time goes on. He was the only one within spitting distance of the Kiesel car last year.

As for an E-Mod 914? I think you gotta forget Porsche power. Street Mod though, there's a podium spot to a killer 914 for anyone willing to drop an absurd amount of money on a monster 914-6. I'm thinking supercharged 3.6 or the like, a gearbox like Tim's, and a stupid amount of money in a redesigned suspension.

-Josh2

[grantsfo]

It's not _just_ the power though. It's that he has a stratospheric redline compared to conventional reciprocating engines. Once he gets on it, he doesn't have to worry about grabbing another gear. In E-Mod and classes like that, the cars tend to follow the simple power philosophy of "laying rubber". If the car can lay down two black streaks of rubber from the exit of one turn to the entrance of the next, then it has enough power. But point-n-shoot won't do it without a suspension under the car, and Kiesel car has a real suspension in it.

The Tunnell machine has absurd power (latest estimates I recall were in the neighborhood of 600+). So much so that the car spends very little time at WOT on a given run.

Expect Bob to give him a run sooner or later. That car only gets faster as time goes on. He was the only one within spitting distance of the Kiesel car last year.

As for an E-Mod 914? I think you gotta forget Porsche power. Street Mod though, there's a podium spot to a killer 914 for anyone willing to drop an absurd amount of money on a monster 914-6. I'm thinking supercharged 3.6 or the like, a gearbox like Tim's, and a stupid amount of money in a redesigned suspension.

-Josh2

Yep I agree. Far better suspension on that car than most 914 we have seen at autocross events. Kiesel just knows how to drive to get fastest times. His style is focused on getting power down.