Chassis stiffening kit patterns Options

[MDG]

If so... Let me get my #2 lead sharpened and open shop.

Wrong, wrong . . WRONG!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)


Use the 2B.





Wife herder. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[mikea100]

I made my own set because I wanted it to be galvanized as all my patches and Maddog said that it'd be too expensive to cut just 1 custom set for me. If you don't needed it to be customized, then just buy it, he charges about $50 over the price of raw material (according to my calculations). Also, I enjoy metal fabrication, so I did everything myself from drawing templates to cutting metal to welding. But if you're going to pay somebody to do it, then I guess it's just easier to buy finished product.

As far as the question of what's better Engman kit or this, let me say that I have them both (Engman not yet installed). I know a guy who has Engman kit installed and he says that it didn't do much for him, which is not what the majority on this board thinks though.

Just my .02

[Eric_Shea]

If I do make my own, I will take my chances with my own skills. Still, it seemed like for someone wanting to do it on their own the response was a little bit large.

Probably the same thing. Most are copies of the original Velious mount so, copies of copies of copies at this point. And... I think the same would apply, probably cheaper to buy one but, if you enjoy cranking it out yourself, have at it.

[ClayPerrine]

I made my own set because I wanted it to be galvanized as all my patches and Maddog said that it'd be too expensive to cut just 1 custom set for me. If you don't needed it to be customized, then just buy it, he charges about $50 over the price of raw material (according to my calculations). Also, I enjoy metal fabrication, so I did everything myself from drawing templates to cutting metal to welding. But if you're going to pay somebody to do it, then I guess it's just easier to buy finished product.

As far as the question of what's better Engman kit or this, let me say that I have them both (Engman not yet installed). I know a guy who has Engman kit installed and he says that it didn't do much for him, which is not what the majority on this board thinks though.

Just my .02

You were welding galvanized steel???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

[mikea100]

I made my own set because I wanted it to be galvanized as all my patches and Maddog said that it'd be too expensive to cut just 1 custom set for me. If you don't needed it to be customized, then just buy it, he charges about $50 over the price of raw material (according to my calculations). Also, I enjoy metal fabrication, so I did everything myself from drawing templates to cutting metal to welding. But if you're going to pay somebody to do it, then I guess it's just easier to buy finished product.

As far as the question of what's better Engman kit or this, let me say that I have them both (Engman not yet installed). I know a guy who has Engman kit installed and he says that it didn't do much for him, which is not what the majority on this board thinks though.

Just my .02

You were welding galvanized steel???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

Yes, I did both galvanized and galvanneal. All Porsches from 77 going forward are galvanized.

[bigkensteele]

I made my own set because I wanted it to be galvanized as all my patches and Maddog said that it'd be too expensive to cut just 1 custom set for me. If you don't needed it to be customized, then just buy it, he charges about $50 over the price of raw material (according to my calculations). Also, I enjoy metal fabrication, so I did everything myself from drawing templates to cutting metal to welding. But if you're going to pay somebody to do it, then I guess it's just easier to buy finished product.

As far as the question of what's better Engman kit or this, let me say that I have them both (Engman not yet installed). I know a guy who has Engman kit installed and he says that it didn't do much for him, which is not what the majority on this board thinks though.

Just my .02

You were welding galvanized steel???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

Yes, I did both galvanized and galvanneal. All Porsches from 77 going forward are galvanized.

I believe that Clay is pointing out that you are putting yourself at risk by welding galvanized steel. It puts out some seriously nasty fumes. At a minimum, you need to grind off any galvanizing on and around your welds. For the stiffening kit, that would pretty much be all of it.

Or you could just hold your breath the whole time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

[SirAndy]

I believe that Clay is pointing out that you are putting yourself at risk by welding galvanized steel. It puts out some seriously nasty fumes.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[partwerks]

Put a bar between the firewall and the rear suspension ear, then reinforce the rear suspension mounting points, where the trailing arm shims go. Thats #1 and #2 for the most weak points in the body on the rear.

Any pictures of that setup?

[Haudiosolutions]

Good God, What is this?

the 1985 Camaro forum?

Carry on mullet bearers...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

LOVE IT! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[Chris Hamilton]

There are a TON of parts for 914s that are copies of the original parts from the 70's. This is one of those cases.

This isn't intellectual property. It doesn't belong to anyone. If it had been patented ( or patent-able ) by Porsche when it was new the patent would be expired by now.

[mikea100]

I believe that Clay is pointing out that you are putting yourself at risk by welding galvanized steel. It puts out some seriously nasty fumes.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Thank you for the concern, but I do all my welding outside with fan, so ventilation is very good (needless to say that I don't use gas (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) ). I don't want to sound argumentative, but I have heard of the health hazards of welding galvanized and did a rather extensive research on the topic. I've read about flu like symptoms and such, but there is no definitive and conclusive evidence of permanent health risk. If you know of any research articles to the contrary, I would love to read them. My second point is that Restoration Design - a premier provider of sheet metal panels - uses galvanneal steel. I asked Peter that question, here's the thread, page #3, posts #3 and #4
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...ea100&st=40

And my last point is how they fix body panels of modern day galvanized cars. I realize that some panels are glued, riveted etc., but there must be some welding done.
Also, take a look at content of weld thru primers, they consist of 93-95% zinc. I just purchased Engman kit and it came with weld thru primer as well which I think is a great idea.

[mikea100]

Put a bar between the firewall and the rear suspension ear, then reinforce the rear suspension mounting points, where the trailing arm shims go. Thats #1 and #2 for the most weak points in the body on the rear.

Any pictures of that setup?

Search for Heim rods. To the best of my knowledge, Chris Foley from Tangerine Racing pioneered them.

http://tangerineracing.com/

[John]

Thanks, I liked what I saw, and tell the truth, I saw the problem coming with the post. I would like to make my own engine mount, but I can see the problems with just asking for the measurements. If I do make my own, I will take my chances with my own skills. Still, it seemed like for someone wanting to do it on their own the response was a little bit large.
I plan to stick around because I need the help. At least that's what everyone says.

I could send you my drawing, but it's different from most out there. Mine does not capture the wiring harness and mine is a solid mount. I don't use the rubber 911 style mounts like a few of the others. I know its sacrilege not to buy from the mainstream member vendors. I typically fabricate my own parts.




There are by the way, patterns that have been passed around for years on such things as 914-6 engine sheet metal, 914-6 oil tank hole layout, 914-6 heater block-off plates, 914-6 oil line hooks, etc.

Once upon a time, I used to think this place (or the one before it) would have been the perfect place for a repository of knowledge with these cars. But, alas, people want to make these parts for others who either lack the skills or would rather buy parts to bolt together for their projects. Eventually, these same people who got a pattern and started a hobby business forget that they don't own these patterns and the knowledge gets lost. Unfortunate, but it is the way of things.

I still will provide the drawings of parts that I have drawn and patterns that others have sent to me. I have been known on occasion, to make parts for a fee as well.

[John]

I'll go out and trace mine if you really want. I too was too cheap to buy one 25+ years ago so I got out cardboard, made patterns and figured out where the pieces went. I had an old Tweeks catalog or an old Automotion, or an old Performance Products, or an old Electrodyne catalog that showed the parts. I was a poor college student at the time, and I took my cardboard patterns to a sheet metal fabricator and he helped me out (probably felt sorry for me in reality) He sold me scraps for really reasonable prices and cut out some of the parts for me.


Keep in mind that unless you remove the 4-cylinder engine mounts, not all pieces will fit.


Also keep in mind that there are better and lighter ways to reinforce the rear of a 914 and these scab plates don't address all the cracking areas that 914's experience. It is what they did once upon a time, but I'm just saying that this is not the only game in town any longer. The internet and these 914 sites offer a wealth of information and there are many pictures of some of the problem areas and approaches of how to address them.

[partwerks]

I see where the rod ties the two together, but not all sure where all those other parts go in the upper right hand part of the picture.
http://www.tangerineracing.com/chassis.htm

The inner and outer don't look that hard to make, but in my situation would have to have the mechanic take all that stuff loose so a person could get at it to make some patterns.

[PeeGreen 914]

On that kit you would be better off buying from Chris. I have priced out what he is selling here and you are saving very little in doing it yourself and it takes a lot of fab work to get it there. This kit from him is ready to go.

[ChrisFoley]

Search for Heim rods. To the best of my knowledge, Chris Foley from Tangerine Racing pioneered them.

I appreciate the credit but I'm not the pioneer of using heim rods braces to stiffen the innner consoles. However, as far as I know I'm the first to create a product using them specifically for this application in a 914, and I am the original designer of the outer console stiffening pieces which I offer.
I try very hard to provide useful products for 914s at the best possible price. I use the products I sell so I'm always seeking to make improvements.

When it comes to copying others, I see nothing wrong with making anything for one's own personal use.
I see nothing wrong with someone redesigning a product which is flawed or isn't well suited to the application, and offering as their own product.
However, I object when someone simply copies available products and sells them out of their basement at a lower price, with the sole purpose of undercutting the commercial vendor.
If someone doing legitimate business can beat me at my own game by offering a similar but improved product or substantially better pricing through their ingenuity, that's fair competition.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Woody]

I have a complete Maddog kit if your interested. Im not going to use it. PM me if you're interested.

[mikea100]

On that kit you would be better off buying from Chris.

+1 on buying it from Chris. His kits are more complicated and therefore difficult to fabricate correctly.

As far as engine mount is concerned - Rich Johnson (a914guy) is your guy. Your other choices are PatrickMotorsports and maddog, but their stuff is not as good as Rich's, at least from what I've read.

[worn]

I have to weigh in here being a perfesser doing real tox studies. I did a VERY quick medline search and found that zinc welding is associated with metal fume fever (MFF). Which is as you say flu like and associated with an inflammatory response. It sounds like if you are consistently upwind of the fumes you would be OK. (The kind of OK I am while spraying 2-part urethane paint with supplied air and still feeling a bit of a cough - not really OK.) Most of the studies involve people who do this a lot, especially in asia. With that said I saw a few serious case studies including a case of meningitis, which might have been coincidental. That wouldn't stop me from working with the stuff, but then I am an IDIOT. Be cautious.