MS guru's! What MS for a /6 turbo?, researching and deciding on a system, bit OT, it's for a 930 Options

[McMark]

The MegaSquirt main board has been through a few revisions, and the MSII and MSIII boards sit on top of the main board. I didn't understand it either until I actually had a unit in my hands from a customer.

[Mark Henry]

The MegaSquirt main board has been through a few revisions, and the MSII and MSIII boards sit on top of the main board. I didn't understand it either until I actually had a unit in my hands from a customer.

So this kit below is a complete MS3 ECU?
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasqu...case-p-419.html

And you add this below to get all the features, making it a MS3X ?
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasqu...card-p-434.html

So would that basically give you a MS3pro in a DIY version? software the same ?

I realize it's just the ECU.....harness and everything else needs to be added, etc.

Current system is CIS, Euro fuel head, adjustable WUR, 2 Staged injectors controlled via map sensor. Injectors plumbed into intake.

Also I don't know the CIS fuel pump, will I need an FI pump?

[McMark]

You got it.

The CIS pump is higher pressure usually. A 1 bar fuel pump and regulator would be a good idea.

[rick 918-S]

So like $ 500.00 and you still need to buy the injectors, 02 TPS, etc.

[Mark Henry]

So like $ 500.00 and you still need to buy the injectors, 02 TPS, etc.

Little more than that Rick.
With the stimulator and basic harness your up about $600, I'm at $709 so far with a 3 bar MAP (for turbo).
Then you need injectors, injector connectors,rails, wideband, pump, hose clamps, some tools, etc....

It adds up.

The same unit pro built (assembly line board,so some smaller components) with same basic harness is $1200 (my $709 figure includes a $55 stim and $99 MAP)...then you still need injectors, injector connectors,rails, wideband, pump, hose clamps, some tools, etc....


Even with the pro built they are recommending a stimulator, which is sort of like a fake engine to check that things work.

[rick 918-S]

So like $ 500.00 and you still need to buy the injectors, 02 TPS, etc.

Little more than that Rick.
With the stimulator and basic harness your up about $600, I'm at $709 so far with a 3 bar MAP (for turbo).
Then you need injectors, injector connectors,rails, wideband, pump, hose clamps, some tools, etc....

It adds up.

The same unit pro built (assembly line board,so some smaller components) with same basic harness is $1200...then you still need injectors, injector connectors,rails, wideband, pump, hose clamps, some tools, etc....


Even with the pro built they are recommending a stimulator, which is sort of like a fake engine to check that things work.

Then SDS looks like an option at $ 1200.00 for the second level unit? or am I still not getting this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)

[Mark Henry]

So like $ 500.00 and you still need to buy the injectors, 02 TPS, etc.

Little more than that Rick.
With the stimulator and basic harness your up about $600, I'm at $709 so far with a 3 bar MAP (for turbo).
Then you need injectors, injector connectors,rails, wideband, pump, hose clamps, some tools, etc....

It adds up.

The same unit pro built (assembly line board,so some smaller components) with same basic harness is $1200...then you still need injectors, injector connectors,rails, wideband, pump, hose clamps, some tools, etc....


Even with the pro built they are recommending a stimulator, which is sort of like a fake engine to check that things work.

Then SDS looks like an option at $ 1200.00 for the second level unit? or am I still not getting this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)

The MS will work out cheaper when all is said and done if you go the DIY route. To me it's at best break even if you go the pro built.

If your not doing a turbo the MS has a map sensor good for NA on the board, on the SDS the map is not included.
Remember the SDS like the MS will still need injectors, injector connectors,rails, wideband, pump, hose clamps, some tools, etc....

One thing of confusion is the 2 different terms on MAP and MAP...one MAP is a sensor and the other "MAP" is the values you input into the software program.
I know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[McMark]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) this is why my complete setup is $3000. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

SDS is not cheaper overall, and the tuning process is terrible (IMHO). I know people have had success, but it's just clunky. Of course, complex computer based systems are familiar to me. ALL aftermarket FI systems absolutely demand you learn all about them. Otherwise it's just a matter of time before they bite you.

[Mark Henry]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) this is why my complete setup is $3000. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

SDS is not cheaper overall, and the tuning process is terrible (IMHO). I know people have had success, but it's just clunky. Of course, complex computer based systems are familiar to me. ALL aftermarket FI systems absolutely demand you learn all about them. Otherwise it's just a matter of time before they bite you.

There is a trick to tuning SDS, once you get your head around it it's not that bad. It took me a while to figure it out.
I can/have done it in about 30 minutes on a country road.

[Mark Henry]

Mark, just a side thought on a totally different engine (mine) on a 914.

Which MS would you grab for a N/A twin plug dizzy with MSD and webers.

Been thinking that if I don't like the webers about doing a stealth nostalgia look using gutted carbs as TBs and hiding the FI as best I could. I'd still use the twin plug dizzy so it's a fuel only system.

MS 2? or a 3 without the expansion card? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[ConeDodger]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) this is why my complete setup is $3000. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

SDS is not cheaper overall, and the tuning process is terrible (IMHO). I know people have had success, but it's just clunky. Of course, complex computer based systems are familiar to me. ALL aftermarket FI systems absolutely demand you learn all about them. Otherwise it's just a matter of time before they bite you.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[edwin]

I've been through this a few times now.
My first efi project i bought a Haltech sprint 500 which went onto my 914/4.
I'm very glad i spent the extra on it rather than a megasquirt as there were a few headaches with my setup and it was nice to not worry about the ecu.
One of the big reasons i went the haltech is that the software seemed much better for fisrt time use.
I've just installed my second unit on my daily driven Saab 900 and it was flawless.
I had a local guy who has heaps of experiance with Motec and megasquirt tune the car and he really liked the software.
My mate has now just bought a Haltech Platinum Sport 1000 which has more features which will be important for the turbo setup he's running.
My call given your mate is lookig at high output on a big dollar engine why try and save the money on the brain? Go a Haltech sport series or Link do some great stuff too

[Mark Henry]

I've been through this a few times now.
My first efi project i bought a Haltech sprint 500 which went onto my 914/4.
I'm very glad i spent the extra on it rather than a megasquirt as there were a few headaches with my setup and it was nice to not worry about the ecu.
One of the big reasons i went the haltech is that the software seemed much better for fisrt time use.
I've just installed my second unit on my daily driven Saab 900 and it was flawless.
I had a local guy who has heaps of experiance with Motec and megasquirt tune the car and he really liked the software.
My mate has now just bought a Haltech Platinum Sport 1000 which has more features which will be important for the turbo setup he's running.
My call given your mate is lookig at high output on a big dollar engine why try and save the money on the brain? Go a Haltech sport series or Link do some great stuff too

10 years ago I didn't know much about FI and I did agree with you and that's why I did SDS.
But Mega Squirt has come a long way since that time and I now have the confidence in my own FI, wiring and electronics knowledge to tackle this project. There are many high dollar MS builds out there.

This is a good build thread to look at MS and quality wiring.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911...ory-so-far.html

[McMark]

Mark, just a side thought on a totally different engine (mine) on a 914.

Which MS would you grab for a N/A twin plug dizzy with MSD and webers.

Been thinking that if I don't like the webers about doing a stealth nostalgia look using gutted carbs as TBs and hiding the FI as best I could. I'd still use the twin plug dizzy so it's a fuel only system.

MS 2? or a 3 without the expansion card? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

If it's a four I would run microsquirt. I would also lean toward COP. Distributors are a pita.

[sixnotfour]

I was going to run micro squirt, fuel only, but I went with a preassembled megasquirt 1, its expandable for igniton and has the built in map, micro does not and if you need it the cost will be the same...
also because I have twin plug distributors and not worried about their curve and looks Old like me....

[Mark Henry]

Mark, just a side thought on a totally different engine (mine) on a 914.

Which MS would you grab for a N/A twin plug dizzy with MSD and webers.

Been thinking that if I don't like the webers about doing a stealth nostalgia look using gutted carbs as TBs and hiding the FI as best I could. I'd still use the twin plug dizzy so it's a fuel only system.

MS 2? or a 3 without the expansion card? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

If it's a four I would run microsquirt. I would also lean toward COP. Distributors are a pita.

This is for my engine
It's a six with a jarvis/patrick twinplug MSD dizzy, kind of like to keep it....I'll see how it's on carbs first.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/patrickms.s3.amazonaws.com-26-1385758882.1.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/patrickms.s3.amazonaws.com-26-1385758883.2.jpg)

[r_towle]

Mark, just a side thought on a totally different engine (mine) on a 914.

Which MS would you grab for a N/A twin plug dizzy with MSD and webers.

Been thinking that if I don't like the webers about doing a stealth nostalgia look using gutted carbs as TBs and hiding the FI as best I could. I'd still use the twin plug dizzy so it's a fuel only system.

MS 2? or a 3 without the expansion card? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

If it's a four I would run microsquirt. I would also lean toward COP. Distributors are a pita.

Mark,
Why are distributors a PITA?
Is it just easier to use a timing wheel and use the software to adjust the curve?

If COP, what do you suggest for parts?

Rich

[McMark]

Distributors have maintenance and timing settings, plus the advance curve is a PITA to change.
Single coil crank fire means you have to sync the FI signal and the physical orientation of the distributor, plus the advance mechanism may or may not be helpful.
No distributor means it's all up to the ECU and you can change timing on the fly any way you want.

Like anything else in this discussion, having options is powerful as long as you understand how to use them. If you're not ready/willing to take on the learning curve, go with a simple system.

[Mark Henry]

I got that dizzy dirt cheap for helping a bud with his FI install. it only has about 10 -15 hours on it. It was on a custom CIS turbo that he could never get the FI to idle right

With SDS I could get the ignition configured to control the advance curve on that dizzy with the MSD.
You would have to lock out the advance in the dizzy and use a crank trigger.

If I don't like like the webers this is what I love to do and why I'd consider doing it. All the sexiness of a twin plug Weber /6 engine with FI tunablity
I asked about doing ignition like this on the MS forum a while back and they thought I was on dope.

The SDS system number is EM-5E/MSD
About a third of the way down this page http://sdsefi.com/specific.html


(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/sdsefi.com-26-1385766541.1.jpg)

[mikesmith]

No distributor means it's all up to the ECU and you can change timing on the fly any way you want.

To be fair, you can do ECU-controlled ignition timing with a distributor; all the 'distributor' part does is pick which plug gets the spark over a very wide range of time.

What you need for ECU-controlled timing is an engine position reference (e.g. cam angle) and controlled spark generation. Look at the GM "small cap" EFI distributors for example, or the MS examples here: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/ignition.html

(there doesn't appear to be a teaching-your-grandmother-to-suck-eggs smiley, sorry...)