Best/Cheapest Front Oil Cooler, anything close to a fluidyne? Options

[porsche735]

So, I am looking for a front oil cooler for my 914-4. I have priced many out and so far they are on 2 ends of the spectrum. Mocal 13"x5.75"x2" at $130 and the Fluidyne 21"x5.88"x3" at $320 (or is there a better price?). I have heard folks speaking of Mazda coolers, etc. What is the best bang for your buck cooler out there? I am trying to find something that is at least 16-18" wide and around 6" tall. Are junkyards a good place? What cars and where are they?

Thanks,
Chris

BTW, I am in the South Bay

[ArtechnikA]

So, I am looking for a front oil cooler for my 914-4.  ... Mocal 13"x5.75"x2" at $130 and the Fluidyne 21"x5.88"x3" at $320 ...  Mazda coolers...?  I am trying to find something that is at least 16-18" wide and around 6" tall.  Are junkyards a good place?

BTW, I am in the South Bay

the Earl's coolers come in a couple of different modular designs that let you adjust the number of 'sections'. basically there's one with about 6" between the ports, which would be good for plumbing with the inlet on the bottom and the outlet on the top, and the ones that are about 12" between the ports that'd be okay for plumbing with both ports on top. (any installation with both ports on the bottom is a bad idea, because it's then impossible to get out the air bubble that will inevitably form there...

if you've done the analysis, you know how much too hot your oil is now, and how many BTU's you need to reject, and the available airflow and ambient temp for plugging into the sizing nomographs, and you therefore know what size you need. spec'ing that size cooler - what is it you're trying to cool ? nevermind, off topic...

junkyards are -not- a good place after you price in the ultrasonic cleaning you'll need to have peace of mind that the thing's not all full of whatever cr&p it was that drove the prior car there in the first place. the RX-7 coolers work for some people but they are NOT bolt-in's - because they require you to cut out the old fittings and re-weld new ones in - with an altrasonic cleaning along the way to get out the previous owner's gunk and aluminum shavings from having cut the old ports out.

so if you're trying to get by on the cheap, get an Earl's cooler in whatever configuration you like. if you absolutely, positively, want the very best, get the Fluidyne. they're very good, but look at the rejection graphs - i promise you they won't be rejecting 2.5X more BTU per unit. their performance lies elsewhere and like many things - that last 10% of performance costs as much as the first 90% did.

i'm a little confused what it is you're trying to accomplish, tho (it's none of my business, i know...)

you're specifing a huge front cooler, but you don't want to run a thermostat, so you're resigned to warming it slowly and carefully and running lots of tape on the bumper for most of the time when you have no way of regulating the cooling to get the oil hot enough. i don't understand, but it's your car, do what you want ...

"The" South Bay would be what - Tampa ? National City ? ??
nevermind - when i saw the full original post - not the 'synopsis' the reply screen gives you - i saw Los Altos. so i know it at least can't be Tampa :-) ...

[si2t3m]

Check with www.setrab.com

Marc-André

[Brad Roberts]

Your playing with fire Chris..

Buy a new cooler. Spend the money. This engine deserves a chance to live. Have the boy go mow some lawns..LOL

Buy the Fluidyne and get it over with..



B

[porsche735]

I have not decided on the thermostat yet. I am leaning toward doing it though. Definitely, it needs to be in the engine compartment area as running it to the front seems to be defeating some of the purpose.
As for size, I am going off of what works for others. The folks that are using the Fluidyne are getting surface area of around 969 in^2 and they are getting temps of 190 degrees all day. The Mocal has a surface area of 342 in^2, not sure what folks are seeing as far as temps with these. I am looking for something that may be in-between the two. Do you have links to any data for the BTU rejection at different ambient temps? Also, how many BTUs our engines are generating?
I agree with your 90% for 10% more performance statement which is exactly why I am posting this.... There must be a good in-between spot. Once I get this figured out, I will post what I did for everyone to see. Folks don't need AN fittings and all the other hype to get something that works very well. That's what I am trying to accomplish if that helps....

chris

[ArtechnikA]

Do you have links to any data for the BTU rejection at different ambient temps?

the technical data in and around here:

Earl's Cooler Tech Pages

will get you started.

[Van914]

For the complete system try here: http://www.batinc.net

They have a cooler with fan and sandwich plate with lines.
Page 12 in the catalog

Van

[J P Stein]

 Folks don't need AN fittings and all the other hype to get something that works very well.  That's what I am trying to accomplish if that helps....

chris

Are you preaching or looking for opinions?

There is nothing special about doing things as inexpensivly as possible. I've seen lots of inexpensive set-ups....some of them even work.

IMO, this is a job one only wants to do once. By the time you're done popping holes, grometing, sealing, building and running lines, mounting the cooler, figuring the ducting...........once was more than enuff for me.

I've seen & handled the Mocal stuff. None of it passes my personal "gud piece " test. If yours is a cheep disposable motor, use cheep disposable oil system parts....simple, eh?

[brant]

chris,

I'm confused how running it to the front defeats the purpose...

yes it takes more line and does cost more.. but if the purpose is to cool the oil then it is my opinion that the front is best at that.

I'm not trying to harp on you or be annoying.. I ran my front cooler in three different configurations before I found what worked... I strongly agree with JP, that you do it right the first time and save yourself the headache of having to re-do it 2 more times like I did.

brant

[TimT]

Earls, Mocal and Setrab are all very similar coolers and all are equally flimsy.... the mounting ears are 18ga maybe?

Buy the Fluidyne and get it over with..

What he said...pony up the bucks and get a fluidyne, basically bullet proof

The mazda RX7 coolers have teeny inlets and outlets....like 3/8's maybe.. need to be cut off and replaced with something larger. Also your buying used when you get the mazda cooler..how much crap is trapped in the cooler?


gratuitous pics of my 911 fluidyne cooler set up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[TimT]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[TimT]

burp

[ArtechnikA]

I'm confused how running it to the front defeats the purpose...

i had to read that post a few times before i realized that it was -the thermostat- that he's talking about mounting near the engine, on which we pretty much all agree.

his initial post mentioned running a front cooler, and the sizes of radiators he's mentioned are only appropriate for front mounting.

yes - we all agree -the oil thermostat- should be close to the engine.

[ArtechnikA]

Earls, Mocal and Setrab are all very similar coolers and all are equally flimsy.... the mounting ears are 18ga maybe?

Earl's doesn't really suggest you use the "mounting ears" for mounting. they suggest you get some 'U' channel stock big enough to slip the cooler flanges into and you use some nice strut/spacer rods to hold the top and bottom U channel parts together. the holes in the 'mounting ears' are used only to retain them from sliding back and forth (or up and down) in the U-channel frame.

[TimT]

Im familiar with the mounting instructions for the Earls type coolers...and they actually recommend against using the mounting ears to mount directly to rigid objects... Ive bought Earls coolers and they came with zip-ties, foam bushings, etc..for mounting...

Ive been down the Earls road... I recommend Fluidyne coolers... they are rugged, and well worth the extra dinero


the plate type coolers ( Earls Mocal Setrab) are fine for street use I guess... Track use might need something more rugged.

Caveat emptor

[campbellcj]

I definitely agree that it is not worth skimping on oil plumbing & cooling. I actually went pretty far towards the "overkill" end of the spectrum on my car, with a 22"x6" MazdaSpeed Motorsports (formerly MazdaComp) cooler that is seemingly very similar to the big Fluidyne, only more expensive, custom aluminum ducting/shrouding with a 32x6" front intake, braided AN-12 lines and Troutman thermostat. If I had known how expensive and hard-to-get the factory Mazda race cooler would be to get (from Japan) I would have gone Fluidyne for sure, but hindsight is 20/20.

Anyways, at some point I will have a quite expensive engine in the car -- perhaps a 2.5L short-stroke / high-comp -- and I consider the oiling system very necessary "insurance". With ambient temps at our local tracks hitting 115° sometimes, cooling has to be taken seriously. Under these conditions a 914-4 with no external cooler will shoot up to 270+ in about 10 minutes; the 911's and 914-6's with their engine-mounted coolers seem to do a little better, but still are playing russian roulette.

[brant]

rich, thanks... I should have read more closely..
Chris, I'm sorry if it sounded like I was harping on you about the front mounting thing.......

I haven't run my fluidyne(s) yet, but can't say strongly enough how much higher quality they appear to be over the earls cooler I've run in the past....

I'm plumbing in my new car.. twin fluidyne double pass coolers.... like I said.. I'm tired of dinking around with cooling.

brant