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> Sportomatic 914, project summer 07
JeffBowlsby
post Jul 30 2006, 11:31 PM
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Nuther of the sporto/6


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Brad Roberts
post Jul 30 2006, 11:36 PM
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I went through my 2005 version of PET and could not find any parts for the T4 engine related to the Sporto. Doesnt mean I didnt miss something, but I used PET every day for over a year straight last year (I know how to use it) I see all the parts for the 911 engine pump and the parts for the /6 oil tank. I see the pedal assembly parts... nothing for the T4 engine as Clay suggested in the other thread. Maybe he has some more info or maybe there is a parts supplement that was released on paper and not put into PET.

I'll keep looking. I have a 914 specific PET for 914's and the factory manuels.



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Brad Roberts
post Jul 30 2006, 11:38 PM
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Great shot Jeff (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif) This shows the placement of the tranny farther back than stock (axles are angled back towards rear of car)

Other notes of interest: The tranny bolts are facing up.

What is the black "canister" on the passenger side of the tranny?

Why is there a body colored sway bar under the car?


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sixnotfour
post Jul 30 2006, 11:50 PM
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QUOTE
What is the black "canister" on the passenger side of the tranny?

disengages the clutch ,it has a disc.
the audi trans auto 914 was on ebay awhile back
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Brad Roberts
post Jul 30 2006, 11:53 PM
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Not the round one. I knew what that one did. I'm talking about the long black "box"

I shouldn't have called it a "canister"



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davep
post Jul 31 2006, 05:20 AM
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There was talk of the factory doing a sporto 914/4, but I don't know if even one prototype was made. There is nothing in any of the literature I have that shows anything on the design. Probably the 1.7 didn't have enough power to do an adequate job and they knew it would be a tough sell.

The 'easy' route to take is the 914/6 sporto since there are all the parts required there. But remember the 914/6 sporto needed a different oil tank. A bunch of those were dumped on the market some years ago. More power to run the AC also.

I'm sure there was a mechanical pump of sorts on the type 4 motor if only a fuel pump. The 905 sporto box should be the best solution. There are lots around, even I have one. That whole assembly should fit either the /4 or the /6. I'd be looking around for a cheap 911 sporto, and part it out. You'll require the pedal cluster and the gearshift plus all the tranny parts.
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Bleyseng
post Jul 31 2006, 07:10 AM
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Look in the factory manuals as they do show some of the sporto parts. The oil pump for the 4 sporto-maybe get one off a bug/type 3 autostick?? The bus auto won't work (full auto).


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jk76.914
post Jul 31 2006, 07:15 AM
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I checked the Type IV automatic transmission in the manual. I seriously doubt you could flip the ring gear. The diff is set up in a separate carrier, that then installs from the bell housing end, not from the side. Looks like the bolt ring isn't symmetric. Plus, looks like the transaxle housing isn't symmetric either- that is, there isn't enough room for the ring gear on the other side.

There are dual plane oil pumps out there, though, for the Type 1-3 with autostick. One is pictured disassembled in Wilson's book "How to Rebuild Your Volkswagen Air-Cooled Engine", on page 55. I have no idea how tall the primary gear set is, that supplies the engine oil.

Also, if you look at the manual for the Type 2 Van, 1972-1979, which used the Type IV engine, there was a fully automatic transmission where the diff loaded from the side, AND it looks like it could flip. In the assembly directions, it even says what side to put the ring gear on, suggesting it could go both ways. It runs on AT Fluid and has its own pump.
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Bleyseng
post Jul 31 2006, 07:33 AM
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I would call Gary to see if he still has those couple of sporto trannys he had sitting there a few years ago. He also had parts for 'em.

http://www.partsobsolete.com/
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cnavarro
post Jul 31 2006, 09:02 AM
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Geoff, you hit it right on the nose. I'm suprised no one mentioned that earlier. Way back when, I was going to put a type 4 into my autostick bug. You can take an autostick oil pump and adapt it to fit a type 4, just like you do a normal type 1 oil pump. The only source I know of that has rebuilt autostick pumps (I purchased one years ago from them) is .... GEX. The unit I got was as close to new as it gets. You could always disassemble it and blueprint each stage to get the pressure up. Although the autostick pump was designed to run two fluids (sealed stages), there is no reason why you can't run the engine oil through the torque convertor like on the 911 version.
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cnavarro
post Jul 31 2006, 09:05 AM
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You could always make a billet oil pump duplicate of the original pump. I know the guys at R&R that I work with could easily make a pump, but it most definately will be more than a rebuilt gex unit. R&R makes billet dry sump pumps, so they know how to do it. You could always run an external dry sump pump with a belt for the torque convertor, but I have never been too keen on belt driven oil pumps :-)
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cnavarro
post Jul 31 2006, 09:09 AM
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And about the special oil tank. Why not just use a type 1 autostick atf resevior? I'm sure that would be way cheaper than fabbing a new oil tank or finding an autostick oil tank. Same with the vacuum tank...
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Eric_Shea
post Jul 31 2006, 09:10 AM
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QUOTE
Why is there a body colored sway bar under the car?


That's a rare Koni bar...
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grasshopper
post Jul 31 2006, 12:32 PM
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jeez, I dont even have to be here and you guys are talking about it. This really sounds like it could work. About buying a cheap 911....uhh.. no...the parts cars go for like two grand...I need that money for the paint... About the type 3 oil pump....Hmmm... it really sounds like it could work.... Hey geoff, Thanks, I'll give them a call and see if they have one. I'll also check into GEX to see if I can get one of those pumps. How much did yours cost?? You said you adapted a T3 oil pump, I'm a little confused...where does it fit? So I could use the torque convertor straight off a 911 sporto? Right now, it seems the only problem we would have with doing a sport would be the oil pump..which you guys seem to have figured out. THIS IS GOING TO WORK!!!!!!!
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bondo
post Jul 31 2006, 12:44 PM
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Just to keep things interesting... what about a tiptronic out of a boxster or cayman? No diff flipping needed!
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grasshopper
post Jul 31 2006, 12:46 PM
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more complicated...mating CV's figuring out how to adapt it to a T4, and I dont know anything about a tiptronic... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Bleyseng
post Jul 31 2006, 01:24 PM
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GEX has the Autostick oil pumps for $249 each!

maybe SLITS has one laying around in that pile o parts....
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Mueller
post Jul 31 2006, 01:30 PM
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QUOTE(grasshopper @ Jul 31 2006, 11:32 AM) *

You said you adapted a T3 oil pump, I'm a little confused...where does it fit?


the same place the oil pump fits on the Type IV motor.....what you might run into is that the fan housing might hit the pump....not sure how the fans are on the T3....I bet it would work fine with a DTM fan from Jake (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


the oil pump is a minor detail compared to whether or not you can flip the ring gear on the sporto....does anyone know if the case on the sportos are alum, or mag???
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SirAndy
post Jul 31 2006, 01:35 PM
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QUOTE(Brad Roberts @ Jul 30 2006, 10:38 PM) *

Great shot Jeff (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif) This shows the placement of the tranny farther back than stock (axles are angled back towards rear of car)

dude ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

the car is obviously on a lift, so what you see is the axles hanging down!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Andy
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Brad Roberts
post Jul 31 2006, 01:38 PM
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And you dont think "I" know what they look like hanging down from a lift?

They dont angle BACK when in full droop.

I promise that the centerline of the axles is farther back!

Here is why:

The intermediate plate is MUCH thinner allowing the case to move back.

I also took into consideration the angle of the shot taken.


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