Well, I have done some research on the sportomatic cars, and I have decided to build one myself. It will be a 914 for my mom, because she doesn't like to have to use the clutch...because she is too short (exatly five feet).. We found a nice solid car, good price, and it has airconditioning...which my mom specified it *had* to have for her to drive. Sportomatic 914 base My dad called us while we were driving from Virginia to Atlanta today and told us we won it...Then I asked her what color she wanted it to be, and the first car she liked she said "that color" it just happened to be a mini cooper... It was orange with black stipes, so that will be my theme. I aim to start and complete the project over next summer, while working at a professional porsche racing shop that pretty much deals with older race cars. I need a list of parts that I need to start collecting to make this work. It really shouldn't be hard to do...after I figured out how everthing worked... So far I have:

-901 Sportomatic transmission
-911 sportomatic pedal cluster
-911 sportomatic shifter and tigger
-torque convertor (it was a VW unit..just not sure exacly what model..I have it saved on the comp somewhere)
-transmission oil temp gauge
-I think I need and extra oil pump to pressurize the system..still a little confused about that part

What else people?? I need to start looking for parts because of their rarity.

can you flip the diff in a sporto?

also...

905 = 901 based sporto
925 = 915 based sporto IIRC

also again!

i read that the sporto oil pump was driven off one of the six cylinder cams....

i remember someone here was going to use one for a tranny pump/cooler setup....

Do I need to? It could probably be done, that is why I am working at a racing shop next summer....I'll do the work like mowing and cleaning up and stuff and he will teach my the business...

If it was driven off one of the cams, how would I get it to work on a T4? Could I run it off the flywheel? (I dont know anything about it, so that may be a very stupid question)...

uh yeah.... (unless you want 1 forward gear and a few reverse LO)

or mount it upside down...

the 914 sporto HAD to have a flipped diff (or the motor spun backwards NOT)

Should be an interesting project, bummer you are so far away. Have fun.

hey, if we get it finished before WCC07, we will drive it out. PROMISE!

Check into the T4 411's and 412's. Most of them seam to have been sold with Automatics. You'll have all the T4 auto pieces you need.


B

ok, the oil pump on the 911 sporto was driven by a cam..so why would I need to do a mechanical pump?? Couldn't I do an electric oil pump??

I have a 411 1.7. It was in a auto car. I may still have the flywheel. But if you find a non running 411 auto stick you may be able to flip the diff and use the T4 stuff to make it work. I know less than nothing about how the Sporto works. Great Project. No question on this subject is dumb.

P.S. I do know the axles don't work and the brakes and all the other stuff are not the same. So you may need to play with axle flanges and stuff to get the axles to bolt to an auto stick.

hmm...

maybe a tilton gear lube pump (used for tranny cooling apps...)

racerpartswholesale.com

so, a learning question...why use the cam to run the pump? wouldn't it spin faster as the RPM's went up, also causing the pump to work harder??? More pressure at higher RPM's???

great point....

the pressure is what keeps it from slipping no?

I guess Rick and I have no f-ing clue..LOL

411+412 has ALL the pump parts/flex plate and torque converters you need. Auto trannies from these cars can be had for $150

I *THINK* they ran the pump off of the oil pump cover much like a dry sump setup.

Forget the electric setup.


B

that makes sense.... so how would I make an electic pump work off of RPM's?? Run it like the tach?

maybe buy this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...item=8003735463

So where can I get these parts?? I checked ebay and I barely found anything at all for a regular 411 and 412.... the samba? Local VW junkyard?

It's a manual trans...

i guess i should read first

Start with the junk yards. The Samba didnt have much either.

Try the T3 section. From what I gather they used the same tranny and same "accumulator" and oil pump.


B

ok, I will look into that. Say that I was a rebel, and didn't listen to you guys? Would I get bashed like trekkor did about the screw in studs Say that I did run a 911 sporto trans, flipped the diff, modified a 411 torque converter to work (if possible) and ran an eletric pump. For the electric pump, I think I have an idea... I was looking into adding a shift light into the car a while ago, and I asked how I would go about that..well, I was told that if I used an MSD ignition system, I could run it off of that..well, could I run the oil pump off of that the same way??

electric pump isnt a great idea as brad said.....

MSD box cannot drive a pump. it can drive an RPM related accessory (tach/light etc it gives a tiny voltage signal.... not 5-6 amps to run a pump)

Short answer: Yes.

First you need to learn how Automatics work.

The 911 Sportamatic is not a true automatic like the 411 and 412 used.

They run it off the cams because it does need more pressure as RPM goes up.


B

well...I guess I will either be trying to figure out how the factory T4 sporto worked...or start trying to find 411 parts.. was the 411 and autostick, or was it a straight auto? Would I have to flip the diff in that to? How would I mate the stock CV's to the drive shaft?

Normal Automatics (not sporto's) run the pump in the bell housing of the tranny. The torque converter spins the pump. Since the Sporto is not a true automatic it doesnt have room in the bell housing for the pump to reside. It is a 901 box with the short bell housing cut off (basically)


B

so the 411 is a regular automatic, no stick at all?

Why not do that Audi box that guy did? Wasn't it Krusty that knew the guy?

Barry...why not ask someone who has done one before.....see if Gust has contact info for the guy who did the one in Europe....might give you some insite...

Never heard of it...any more details?

lol, because I dont know anyone that has done one before...

Check your other Sporto thread.....Gust posted the link I believe

I am on my grandma's computer right now, so I dont know where that thread went...the search never turns anything up for me...

I have been asked numerous times over the years to "produce" something. I just dont think the demand is there to "produce" something. I'm past the point of "doing it for the love of the car". I'm sure he can pull this off. I personally would go down the 411+412 path and find out if the diff can be flipped.

The Audi idea is great, but then you have to figure out the engine adapter.

I love the idea.


B

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=34688


that was from searching "sporto"

Hey brad, thanks for all you help. I would really love to at least *try* to make the sportomatic work first....if I fail then at least I learned something, and will go down another path towards an automatic..It just seems like using a sporto trans would be easy except for the oil pump part... I dont know how I would run it...I couldn't run it off the fan, because it is on the other side of the engine...not off the flywheel...so what?? I am going to try and find some original 914-4 sporto documents..and see what the guy in europe did.

This is what the 9146 Sporto looks like (for those playing along at home)

B

Reading the other thread: There is no reason why he would have had to do anything with an adapter. If a 911 engine bolts to a 914/901 tranny.. then a T4 will bolt to the Sporto.


B

This is on Samba. I will be curious to see if this works GH. Good for you for chasing it.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=335384

Nuther of the sporto/6

I went through my 2005 version of PET and could not find any parts for the T4 engine related to the Sporto. Doesnt mean I didnt miss something, but I used PET every day for over a year straight last year (I know how to use it) I see all the parts for the 911 engine pump and the parts for the /6 oil tank. I see the pedal assembly parts... nothing for the T4 engine as Clay suggested in the other thread. Maybe he has some more info or maybe there is a parts supplement that was released on paper and not put into PET.

I'll keep looking. I have a 914 specific PET for 914's and the factory manuels.



B

Great shot Jeff This shows the placement of the tranny farther back than stock (axles are angled back towards rear of car)

Other notes of interest: The tranny bolts are facing up.

What is the black "canister" on the passenger side of the tranny?

Why is there a body colored sway bar under the car?


B

disengages the clutch ,it has a disc.
the audi trans auto 914 was on ebay awhile back

Not the round one. I knew what that one did. I'm talking about the long black "box"

I shouldn't have called it a "canister"



B

There was talk of the factory doing a sporto 914/4, but I don't know if even one prototype was made. There is nothing in any of the literature I have that shows anything on the design. Probably the 1.7 didn't have enough power to do an adequate job and they knew it would be a tough sell.

The 'easy' route to take is the 914/6 sporto since there are all the parts required there. But remember the 914/6 sporto needed a different oil tank. A bunch of those were dumped on the market some years ago. More power to run the AC also.

I'm sure there was a mechanical pump of sorts on the type 4 motor if only a fuel pump. The 905 sporto box should be the best solution. There are lots around, even I have one. That whole assembly should fit either the /4 or the /6. I'd be looking around for a cheap 911 sporto, and part it out. You'll require the pedal cluster and the gearshift plus all the tranny parts.

Look in the factory manuals as they do show some of the sporto parts. The oil pump for the 4 sporto-maybe get one off a bug/type 3 autostick?? The bus auto won't work (full auto).

I checked the Type IV automatic transmission in the manual. I seriously doubt you could flip the ring gear. The diff is set up in a separate carrier, that then installs from the bell housing end, not from the side. Looks like the bolt ring isn't symmetric. Plus, looks like the transaxle housing isn't symmetric either- that is, there isn't enough room for the ring gear on the other side.

There are dual plane oil pumps out there, though, for the Type 1-3 with autostick. One is pictured disassembled in Wilson's book "How to Rebuild Your Volkswagen Air-Cooled Engine", on page 55. I have no idea how tall the primary gear set is, that supplies the engine oil.

Also, if you look at the manual for the Type 2 Van, 1972-1979, which used the Type IV engine, there was a fully automatic transmission where the diff loaded from the side, AND it looks like it could flip. In the assembly directions, it even says what side to put the ring gear on, suggesting it could go both ways. It runs on AT Fluid and has its own pump.

I would call Gary to see if he still has those couple of sporto trannys he had sitting there a few years ago. He also had parts for 'em.

http://www.partsobsolete.com/

Geoff, you hit it right on the nose. I'm suprised no one mentioned that earlier. Way back when, I was going to put a type 4 into my autostick bug. You can take an autostick oil pump and adapt it to fit a type 4, just like you do a normal type 1 oil pump. The only source I know of that has rebuilt autostick pumps (I purchased one years ago from them) is .... GEX. The unit I got was as close to new as it gets. You could always disassemble it and blueprint each stage to get the pressure up. Although the autostick pump was designed to run two fluids (sealed stages), there is no reason why you can't run the engine oil through the torque convertor like on the 911 version.