It's official, fuch the /4...... I'm doing a six, I'm nuts, JP wins Options

[Mark Henry]

So.... I got all these cool parts, straight trade, his junk for my junk.
Doesn't matter how I look at this, a big four adds almost 0 value to a 914, stick a six in and it's worth a lot more. Especially here in Canada!
I'm actually down sizing from a 2.7 T4 to a 2.0 six (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

I got a 75 911S with 69T 2.0 engine and trans, plus four fuchs. I could break this and make a nice tidy profit, but I don't like to tempt fate. I think it would be bad karma to pass this up.
I only have 2 of the four fuchs right now but I'm asured I'll have the other 2 and an extra seized 911 engine. No info other than it's seized.

The engine has a lot of cool stuff on it 40IDA webers, a 69S dizzy, permatune and turbo lower covers. The guy also said it has "hot cams" so my fingers are crossed and maybe there's some more goodies in there. It turns over nice, lots of meat on my 215mm flywheel (nice) and the cam lobes look good. I'll be doing a rootworks special and will make most of my own parts. I was hoping to use the '75 5-bolt rear hubs, but I think it's the wrong year. I'll get a set of rears hubs off of Eric.

I have everything for a 2.7 nickies T4, I'm glad I haven't put it together because it now going in my bug. Almost like fate man, far out.

I have no money, but I have a whack (I had a whole other stroker engine for the bug) of nice T4 stuff that will be in the classifieds real soon. I'll be listing some stuff today (and later this week) here first before the samba!
I'll trade for /6 parts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)



--
Cheers Mark

[Ian Stott]

Hey Mark, what are your plans for that Ghia? A good friend is looking for one, it doesn't even have to have an engine, although he might need the tranny.

Ian Stott
Moncton
Canada

[Mark Henry]

You wouldn`t like the price (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) not for sale.

[Mark Henry]

Well the good luck had to end, not a 69S. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

It has 2.2T heads so now it's a 2.2....I think (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Now seeing as it's just a bastardized 2.2, if it has compression I'm going to try and fire it up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[Justinp71]

Awesome! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[ClayPerrine]

Well the good luck had to end, not a 69S. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

It has 2.2T heads so now it's a 2.2....I think (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Now seeing as it's just a bastardized 2.2, if it has compression I'm going to try and fire it up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

T and E heads are the same, but the cylinders and pistons are not. E has more compression and more cam......

[campbellcj]

If it has MFI drive on the cam then you can figure it's either an E or S cam. 2.2S pistons with 2.2E cams would be a nice combo.

Sorry for the slight hijack, but does anybody know a way to tell externally (without tearing down) between E and S cams? I have a similar 'mystery motor' that I just pulled out of my car and I'm curious what the heck is in it. It's a factory -6 engine that was reportedly built with some 2.2S parts but details are minimal.

[sixnotfour]

The best way to get an idea of the cam (without tearing it apart) is to check the lift at overlap.

[Mark Henry]

I haven't had time to do a compression test, but I cleaned the engine the other night, 8 hours of huffing fumes. I've giving the engine the nickname "The Little Bastard™" as it is an odd ball.
Tried to mount it on the engine stand but most of the studs are pulled and need repair...core again right?

Well I then examined the head studs, they are fine, in fact they all have case savers. The exhaust and intakes ports suggest a well running engine.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

I borrowed all the gear for setting the cams from MikeG so I'll dig into it further very soon. "Hot cams" is what I was told and so far The Little Bastard™ has been full of surprises. I'll be hitting you guys up for some help on scoping out the cam.

No MFI drive.

[ClayPerrine]

If it has MFI drive on the cam then you can figure it's either an E or S cam. 2.2S pistons with 2.2E cams would be a nice combo.

Sorry for the slight hijack, but does anybody know a way to tell externally (without tearing down) between E and S cams? I have a similar 'mystery motor' that I just pulled out of my car and I'm curious what the heck is in it. It's a factory -6 engine that was reportedly built with some 2.2S parts but details are minimal.

Acutally, T cams have the MFI drive too... They didn't change to CIS until 73.5, and that was a 2.4L.

I haven't had time to do a compression test, but I cleaned the engine the other night, 8 hours of huffing fumes. I've giving the engine the nickname "The Little Bastard™" as it is an odd ball.
Tried to mount it on the engine stand but most of the studs are pulled and need repair...core again right?

Well I then examined the head studs, they are fine, in fact they all have case savers. The exhaust and intakes ports suggest a well running engine.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

I borrowed all the gear for setting the cams from MikeG so I'll dig into it further very soon. "Hot cams" is what I was told and so far The Little Bastard™ has been full of surprises. I'll be hitting you guys up for some help on scoping out the cam.

No MFI drive.

Best way to tell is to measure the lift on the cams. It is listed in the Pelican Dude's book on 911 engines.

And aftermarket cams are available with and without MFI drive.

[Mark Henry]

Best way to tell is to measure the lift on the cams. It is listed in the Pelican Dude's book on 911 engines.

And aftermarket cams are available with and without MFI drive.

Don't have that book...but measuring lift is easy enough.

Are these struts and hubs OK?
71T struts and hubs off of a '67

[sixnotfour]

http://www.elgincams.com/catalog.html

ELGIN PORSCHE 911 CAMS

GRIND
SEAT DURATION
VALVE LIFT
LOBE CENTER
LIFT AT LAP

T cis and 930 turbo
245 I

238 E
.368

.339
108
0.5-0.7 mm for cis 911T

0.65-0.80 mm for 1978-81 30 turbo

S cis
255 I

238 E
.401

.339
113
0.4-0.54 mm

For Improved Stock, use high # of range.

SC cis
268 I

258 E
.450

.395
113
1.4-1.7 mm 1978-80 R.o.w., 1980-83 US SC. 0.9-1.1 mm 1976-77 3.0 Carrera. 1978-79 US SC, 1981-3 R.o.w. 911SC.

1.1-1.4 mm 1984-87 3.2 Carrera.

For imporved stock, use high # of range.

C2 and C4
280 I

262 E
.470

.430
113
1.26 mm +/- .1mm for 911 Carrera 2/4

T carb.
260 I

254 E
.385

.345
105
2.3-2.7 mm

2.4-2.8 mm 1972-3

E or L carb.
270 I

260 E
.405

.390
102
3.0-3.3 mm

1966 SOLEX
280 I

270 E
.440

.405
97
4.2-4.6 mm

S carb.
300 I

270 E
.450

.395
98
5.0-5.4 mm

Mod. S
296 I

2767 E
.470

.440
102
4.5 mm

306/288
306 I

288 E
.496

.463
102
5.0 mm

310/296
310 I

296 E
.490

.465
100
6.0 mm

315/300
315 I

300 E
.504

.471
100
5.8 mm

906 Carrera
318 I

292 E
.460

.403
95
6.8 mm +/- 0.1 mm

SPRINT RSR
318 I

300 E
.460

.450
101
6.8 mm

320/304
320 I

304 E
.510

.480
100
6.5 mm

IMSA
342 I

321 E
.525

.500
100
7.2-7.4 mm

Group B Turbo
269 I

254 E
.370

.337
106
1.8-1.9 mm

ELGIN Mod B
270 I

255 E
.402

.399
106
2.9-3.3 mm

ELGIN Turbo
266 I

252 E
.454

.418
108
2.2 mm

[campbellcj]

2.2 T's had carbs (Zeniths). All the 2.4's (plus the 2.7RS of course) had MFI until the switch to CIS in 73.5...

Unless my memory has completely failed...

[J P Stein]

Jeff has listed intake valve height at TDC overlap on #1 or #4....your timing point for 911 cams. Look at the Solex cams, 4.2-4.6 mm at overlap (I'm most familar with that), T cams are 2.3-2.7 except 2.4L 72-73 With Zenith@ 2.4-2.8mm.
IMO, the best/easiest way to check for cam type.

[Mark Henry]

So I just measure the circle base and then the highest point on the lobe? I can do that today.

What do you mean by overlap?
I'm new to the /6 (even though I've built a couple, long ago) so I may ask some dumb questions or use the wrong terminology.

[J P Stein]

You measure the valve lift (I do it on the retainer) while the cams are installed at 360 deg from TDC......TDC overlap. Your Z1 mark is either TDC or TDC overlap when it is lined up on the case split. You have to be able to turn the crank, of course. You'll need a dial indicator with an inch (not unusal) of travel and a way to hold it solid. I have such a rig but it's sold to pete-sever.......if he sends money. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Otherwise I'd loan it to ya.

[SLITS]

Couple of "V" blocks and a dial indicator*** .... set dial at "0" on the base circle and rotate ... gives you total lift on the lobe .... multiply by rocker ratio and you have actual lift at the valve.

Otherwise ... same method with cam in housing and decrease by rocker ratio if measuring at the valve retainer.

At least I think it's this simple and how I did it for years.

Now, determination of opening and closing and duration is another matter all together.

*** If the cam is out of the housing

[J P Stein]

Couple of "V" blocks and a dial indicator*** .... set dial at "0" on the base circle and rotate ... gives you total lift on the lobe .... multiply by rocker ratio and you have actual lift at the valve.

Otherwise ... same method with cam in housing and decrease by rocker ratio if measuring at the valve retainer.

At least I think it's this simple and how I did it for years.

Now, determination of opening and closing and duration is another matter all together.

*** If the cam is out of the housing

I've done that with calipers X 1.5.....quick & dirty if you have a good idea of what the cam should be....but.... with the difference between say Solex & E cams, you can get it wrong without checking lobe centers & duration.

[SLITS]

Couple of "V" blocks and a dial indicator*** .... set dial at "0" on the base circle and rotate ... gives you total lift on the lobe .... multiply by rocker ratio and you have actual lift at the valve.

Otherwise ... same method with cam in housing and decrease by rocker ratio if measuring at the valve retainer.

At least I think it's this simple and how I did it for years.

Now, determination of opening and closing and duration is another matter all together.

*** If the cam is out of the housing

I've done that with calipers X 1.5.....quick & dirty if you have a good idea of what the cam should be....but.... with the difference between say Solex & E cams, you can get it wrong without checking lobe centers & duration.

Yes Sir JP, but then you forgot to mention mounting a degree wheel on the crank pulley to get those figures. And do you measure duration at 0.050" or beginning of indicator movement?

[sixnotfour]

wow KISS
check the overlap while the motors together ,at least you will have some idea without tearing it apart if you are not ready to.
Its also a good reference JIC it has some reground cam.

[J P Stein]

Couple of "V" blocks and a dial indicator*** .... set dial at "0" on the base circle and rotate ... gives you total lift on the lobe .... multiply by rocker ratio and you have actual lift at the valve.

Otherwise ... same method with cam in housing and decrease by rocker ratio if measuring at the valve retainer.

At least I think it's this simple and how I did it for years.

Now, determination of opening and closing and duration is another matter all together.

*** If the cam is out of the housing

I've done that with calipers X 1.5.....quick & dirty if you have a good idea of what the cam should be....but.... with the difference between say Solex & E cams, you can get it wrong without checking lobe centers & duration.

Yes Sir JP, but then you forgot to mention mounting a degree wheel on the crank pulley to get those figures. And do you measure duration at 0.050" or beginning of indicator movement?

I thought he wanted to do it while the cams are installed in his motor. Removing/reinstalling/timing cams is a bitch....I'd sure as hell not go there. The TDC overlap is almost bullet proof. Nothing but an indicator is needed......but it's wise to do both 1 & 4 for comparison. I'm not advocating checking cam specs, just pointing out possible errors.