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> gaining HP with an air filter, is it true?
tradisrad
post Dec 10 2009, 08:38 AM
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I was browsing the AA catalog and came across the MSDS high flow cone air filter (catalog page 28). The ad claims that one can gain upto 10 more HP using this air filter. Is this true? Has anyone else used one of these?

BTW my engine is a 2056, stock FI with Raby's 9550 cam and tuned MPS.

HPH sells a bored throttle body and claims HP gain with the TB. True?
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Joe Bob
post Dec 10 2009, 08:42 AM
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dr914@autoatlanta.com
post Dec 10 2009, 08:44 AM
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Martin Schneider makes these You could call him at msds and ask, anytime one increases the air flow the horsepower increases. Of course personally I would NEVER install one on my car unless I had a racing car where I would always be running at maximum RPM.
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tat2dphreak
post Dec 10 2009, 08:47 AM
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if you engine is well tuned, my guess would be in the 2-3hp gain

if it's having issues getting enough air, then it might help 5-6hp

basically, I don't think they help much...

edit:
nevermind, even the guy standing to make a few pennies is telling you don't bother...
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tradisrad
post Dec 10 2009, 08:57 AM
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QUOTE(tat2dphreak @ Dec 10 2009, 06:47 AM) *

if you engine is well tuned, my guess would be in the 2-3hp gain

if it's having issues getting enough air, then it might help 5-6hp

basically, I don't think they help much...

edit:
nevermind, even the guy standing to make a few pennies is telling you don't bother...


I did not think I could gain much power using one of these, but I had to ask!
thanks
-Rob
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pcar916
post Dec 10 2009, 09:05 AM
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If it's tuned to your headers and everything in between (i.e. throttle body, cam duration and lift, port configuration, etc) then it'll get you something unless you are already as good as you can get.

Even then you have to pick an rpm range to be "ideal". Then you can experiment with intake length and exhaust back-pressure. That's why I run SuperTrapps. I have to use various plates with different fuels.

In any case, you need a dyno (as opposed to your ass-dyno (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif) ) to tell.

I'd spend the money on the nut behind the wheel... like track time!!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

Ron
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Larouex
post Dec 10 2009, 09:20 AM
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I have one of these, never installed for your 914. I bought from AA, but decided to stay stock. PM me and it is yours for 75 bucks.

Larouex
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detoxcowboy
post Dec 10 2009, 09:24 AM
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I have a pair of shoes that makes me run faster (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drunk.gif) .
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Cap'n Krusty
post Dec 10 2009, 09:51 AM
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Even claims of 2-3 HP is pushing the envelope of reality. But you WILL, after an extended period, get a really loose motor from all the crap that passes through that "filter". More air flow through fewer square inches of filter material = larger pores in the material.

The Cap'n
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Bleyseng
post Dec 10 2009, 09:59 AM
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You'll get more hp gain by switching to a bus plenum/throttle body as Jakes dyno tests prove across the rpm band. For street driving stick to the stock air cleaner as it works
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jhadler
post Dec 10 2009, 09:59 AM
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My only real interest in a setup like that is -weight-. The stock air box for a 2.0L is not light by any stretch. And I would say that something like this fits well under Brant's $50/lb threshold for investment.

I doubt it actually improves power by much (if any) unless the air filter element you're replacing is totally clogged up with cr*p.

Louder? Sure.
Lighter? Very likely.
More power? Doubtful.

-Josh2
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underthetire
post Dec 10 2009, 11:07 AM
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QUOTE(tradisrad @ Dec 10 2009, 06:38 AM) *

I was browsing the AA catalog and came across the MSDS high flow cone air filter (catalog page 28). The ad claims that one can gain upto 10 more HP using this air filter. Is this true? Has anyone else used one of these?

BTW my engine is a 2056, stock FI with Raby's 9550 cam and tuned MPS.

HPH sells a bored throttle body and claims HP gain with the TB. True?
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Wow, that would be a 18% gain in HP on my car. Can I get one with the fuel magnet and the dyno turbine thingy to space my throttle body? I could be up to 100 HP before you know it! with bolt on items as well ! That will save me a lot of money compared to Jakes cam! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)
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SirAndy
post Dec 10 2009, 11:50 AM
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QUOTE(tradisrad @ Dec 10 2009, 06:38 AM) *

Is this true?

If it smells like snake oil and tastes like snake oil it's probably snake oil ...
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charliew
post Dec 10 2009, 12:14 PM
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If you can use a air filter that has a element that has smaller holes in the material it will filter better. If that surface area is larger than the prior filter so that it will flow more air, it's gotta be better. More air is always going to give more power. As in most high performance it is the sum of all the parts that makes a good result.
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underthetire
post Dec 10 2009, 12:16 PM
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QUOTE(charliew @ Dec 10 2009, 10:14 AM) *

If you can use a air filter that has a element that has smaller holes in the material it will filter better. If that surface area is larger than the prior filter so that it will flow more air, it's gotta be better. More air is always going to give more power. As in most high performance it is the sum of all the parts that makes a good result.



Um, no. Only if you can add extra fuel for the extra air. Otherwise you just lean out.
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charliew
post Dec 10 2009, 12:37 PM
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I thought the discussion was about air filters not about tuning. On a carbureator the more air the more fuel in most cases without changing jets unless the carbs are really marginal to the breathing capacity of the motor. Also the closer to lean the more power until it's too lean. On fi with a maf the more air the more fuel till the injectors are maxed out.
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underthetire
post Dec 10 2009, 01:18 PM
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Carbs have ventures. More air through them=more fuel. Newer cars can compensate on the FI for more air, either by O2 readings or Mass airflow sensor if it has it. Stock FI is open loop (no O2), and a Map,( manifold absolute pressure) therefore not capable of tuning for air increase by itself. The MAP type cars only read off vacuum, vacuum is only atmospheric pressure as the high, and what ever the engine can produce mechanical to the low, down to 30 inches. This air filter was sold a a HP increase for stock injection.
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charliew
post Dec 10 2009, 01:26 PM
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There is a big difference in MAP and MAF. Venturi I guess you mean? There are better flowing air cleaners that flow more clean air than stock stuff and stock fuel management will not get to lean to be safe because the airflow is not enough to screw the fuel management up. I will say I may be spewing bs as I don't know much about vw fi, I do know fi though, but I bet a vw with fi won't get too lean with the aircleaner taken completely off but maybe so.
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Rod
post Dec 10 2009, 01:47 PM
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QUOTE(Larouex @ Dec 10 2009, 03:20 PM) *

I have one of these, never installed for your 914. I bought from AA, but decided to stay stock. PM me and it is yours for 75 bucks.

Larouex


For what capacity engine??
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underthetire
post Dec 10 2009, 01:59 PM
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QUOTE(charliew @ Dec 10 2009, 11:26 AM) *

There is a big difference in MAP and MAF. Venturi I guess you mean? There are better flowing air cleaners that flow more clean air than stock stuff and stock fuel management will not get to lean to be safe because the airflow is not enough to screw the fuel management up. I will say I may be spewing bs as I don't know much about vw fi, I do know fi though, but I bet a vw with fi won't get too lean with the aircleaner taken completely off but maybe so.



Don't know if it would either, but in either case I think the limiting factor would be the tiny throttle bodies anyway. especially the 1.7. If my car actually ran I could see the difference between the two with the megasquirt and log it on the computer. But those little pieces of teeth in the bell housing are a different story. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)
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