I was browsing the AA catalog and came across the MSDS high flow cone air filter (catalog page 28). The ad claims that one can gain upto 10 more HP using this air filter. Is this true? Has anyone else used one of these?

BTW my engine is a 2056, stock FI with Raby's 9550 cam and tuned MPS.

HPH sells a bored throttle body and claims HP gain with the TB. True?
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Martin Schneider makes these You could call him at msds and ask, anytime one increases the air flow the horsepower increases. Of course personally I would NEVER install one on my car unless I had a racing car where I would always be running at maximum RPM.

if you engine is well tuned, my guess would be in the 2-3hp gain

if it's having issues getting enough air, then it might help 5-6hp

basically, I don't think they help much...

edit:
nevermind, even the guy standing to make a few pennies is telling you don't bother...

I did not think I could gain much power using one of these, but I had to ask!
thanks
-Rob

If it's tuned to your headers and everything in between (i.e. throttle body, cam duration and lift, port configuration, etc) then it'll get you something unless you are already as good as you can get.

Even then you have to pick an rpm range to be "ideal". Then you can experiment with intake length and exhaust back-pressure. That's why I run SuperTrapps. I have to use various plates with different fuels.

In any case, you need a dyno (as opposed to your ass-dyno ) to tell.

I'd spend the money on the nut behind the wheel... like track time!!!!!

Ron

I have one of these, never installed for your 914. I bought from AA, but decided to stay stock. PM me and it is yours for 75 bucks.

Larouex

I have a pair of shoes that makes me run faster .

Even claims of 2-3 HP is pushing the envelope of reality. But you WILL, after an extended period, get a really loose motor from all the crap that passes through that "filter". More air flow through fewer square inches of filter material = larger pores in the material.

The Cap'n

You'll get more hp gain by switching to a bus plenum/throttle body as Jakes dyno tests prove across the rpm band. For street driving stick to the stock air cleaner as it works

My only real interest in a setup like that is -weight-. The stock air box for a 2.0L is not light by any stretch. And I would say that something like this fits well under Brant's $50/lb threshold for investment.

I doubt it actually improves power by much (if any) unless the air filter element you're replacing is totally clogged up with cr*p.

Louder? Sure.
Lighter? Very likely.
More power? Doubtful.

-Josh2

Wow, that would be a 18% gain in HP on my car. Can I get one with the fuel magnet and the dyno turbine thingy to space my throttle body? I could be up to 100 HP before you know it! with bolt on items as well ! That will save me a lot of money compared to Jakes cam!

If it smells like snake oil and tastes like snake oil it's probably snake oil ...
Andy

If you can use a air filter that has a element that has smaller holes in the material it will filter better. If that surface area is larger than the prior filter so that it will flow more air, it's gotta be better. More air is always going to give more power. As in most high performance it is the sum of all the parts that makes a good result.

Um, no. Only if you can add extra fuel for the extra air. Otherwise you just lean out.

I thought the discussion was about air filters not about tuning. On a carbureator the more air the more fuel in most cases without changing jets unless the carbs are really marginal to the breathing capacity of the motor. Also the closer to lean the more power until it's too lean. On fi with a maf the more air the more fuel till the injectors are maxed out.

Carbs have ventures. More air through them=more fuel. Newer cars can compensate on the FI for more air, either by O2 readings or Mass airflow sensor if it has it. Stock FI is open loop (no O2), and a Map,( manifold absolute pressure) therefore not capable of tuning for air increase by itself. The MAP type cars only read off vacuum, vacuum is only atmospheric pressure as the high, and what ever the engine can produce mechanical to the low, down to 30 inches. This air filter was sold a a HP increase for stock injection.

There is a big difference in MAP and MAF. Venturi I guess you mean? There are better flowing air cleaners that flow more clean air than stock stuff and stock fuel management will not get to lean to be safe because the airflow is not enough to screw the fuel management up. I will say I may be spewing bs as I don't know much about vw fi, I do know fi though, but I bet a vw with fi won't get too lean with the aircleaner taken completely off but maybe so.

For what capacity engine??

Don't know if it would either, but in either case I think the limiting factor would be the tiny throttle bodies anyway. especially the 1.7. If my car actually ran I could see the difference between the two with the megasquirt and log it on the computer. But those little pieces of teeth in the bell housing are a different story.

alright. i have a 73 1.7L and am looking to ditch the oil bath intake. would one of these be worth getting as a replacement until i sell it (then ill put the stock oil bath back on). I guess you can use a 1.8L airbox but im just curious as to what would be easier and more reliable.

Maybe this will help gas mileage and improve HP???

I thought there was a 1.7L paper element airbox as well?

The oil-bath filter, if maintained properly, works very well ...

Just don't step on it when it's sitting on the garage floor ...
Andy

I think the oil bath is one of the best...

K&N's are junk.

And yes, my 73 uses paper elements. I offered it up already.

so im taking that this is a piece junk? i just want to be reliable and for some reason oil bath doesnt seem to sound reliable, lol but im a noob so what do i know

If I remember correctly, the only way that the filter helps horsepower is if you use the filter, with an inline "turbolater", gas line magnets, and be sure to optimize your muffler bearing!

he's tuned MPS for more fuel so hopefully it'll be richened enough.

allen "retrofit" (R.I.P.) claimed the top end improved with the cone set up he had. we also can feel a slight top end increase with our home set up. it routes behind the drivers seat up high to get the colder air. it's no science that top end gets choked on o.e. air box's. look at the 2.0 air box's restrictive "pee shooter" intake tube sucking hot air off the top of the motor. i suppose there must be a quality cone filter out there to use, maybe an o.e. ford truck cone couldbe used .

I had the same thought a while back to buy one of these and got the same response---it really isn't worth it for most of us

I just replaced my fuel filter element with a piece of open gauze and the reduced fuel system drag added 25 horses......

Seriously, oil bath air cleaners work great. Ran them in my VW Beetles for about 30 years. Low drag, great filtering, quiet, and really low cost to operate because you don't need an expensive paper element . l changed my oil in my filter every 5 years or so whether it needed it or not.....

Works great is a very subjective statement. Works great for a stock putterer? Works great for a under 5k rpm 50hp motor? If I ever remember to try it I will put the t1 oil bath filter on my flow bench and see how it compares to a paper k&n and a stock sized oem paper element if I can find a similiar sized oem one. It would be real easy to hook the air box up on my 97 1 ton to the flow bench and try the stock element and the k&n replacement to check it out but I'm pretty sure the k&n flows more air because it's noisier.

Flows more air..... really?

Think about it..... an engine is a piston air pump....

Depending on atmospheric air pressure, there is only so much air that can fill a cylinder when the piston goes from TDC to BDC .....

The only way that you can get less air in the cylinder is to place a large air restrictor into the intake and then the piston sucks a vacuum when the piston goes down.......

I'd be willing to bet a non-dirty air filter is designed to pass air and isn't enough of a flow restrictor to create a vaccum so large that it restricts horsepower by other than a very minimal amount......

Oil baths use bubbling and aren't subjected to dirt and flow changes as much as paper units are....

For what it is worth, I have spent quite a bit of time on a dyno tuning my spec miata and there are 3-5 hp differences between a stock miata airbox and cone filter assembly. The early miata and the 1.8 914 have a similar intake because they use a airbox with a snorkel and bosch AFM. On the miata we found that the AFM is a large restriction and the box itself is a restriction but only one of those can be fixed, basically you can reduce all the restriction you want from the air filter assembly but only so much air is going to go through the AFM. So, the goal is to find a filter assembly that will flow air the best THROUGH the AFM. Someone with more time on their hands than me has done the testing with a flowbench and found that the AFM and the airbox were the restrictions in the system of the miata. I am pretty sure that no one has really done that kind of testing on a 1.8 914, I mean why would you. The fact is, if the 1.8L doesn't flow enough to max out the flow of the AFM or the air box/filter then you probably aren't leaving that much on the table. Then again, if it is maxing it out then there could potentially be some good HP being left on the table.

It also goes without saying that you should probably adjust your AFM if you are going to modify your intake filter assembly etc.

So, is it worth it for 0-5hp? Well, if it is a 5hp gain well thats like a 6-7% gain in HP at the wheels on a stock 914. I guess its up to you.


kyle

Just remember with the 1.8 L-jet you have a built in flow restrictor......

A spring loaded air flap that requires air pressure to open it and to set the fuel flow...

Performer enhancer it ain't, but then again it's pretty reliable- unless you have an air leak downstream from the flap....

That's why the later versions of Bosch EFI took out the flap and used a low flow restricting hot wire....

That's why if you really want to make HP with a the flapper style AFM(air fuel meter), the design of the tube/adapter is as important as the the air filter. You are trying to make the smoothest transition from the round intake tube to the square throat on the AFM.

This is what the spec miata guys do.


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I threw one of these on my "73 1.7. The car runs stronger & the engine well is much easier to work in.