SOT: Considering a MK2, 3 or 4 VW GTI for my new DD, Give me the good, the bad, and the ugly... Options

[Gint]

I don't want to spend a fortune and I don't buy new cars anymore anyway. I like the fact that I can get into cars I've always liked without losing my shorts or spending a a ton of cash. I have a 914, a 4WD truck and a DD (the DD will be replaced with this car) so absolute dependability isn't the most important factor as I can deal with one car having a little down time.

I've been wanting to get an old water cooled VW again for quite awhile. While I'd prefer a MK1 Scirocco or GTI, they aren't exactly plentiful anymore. So I'm looking at the later GTIs. Of course a Scirocco wouldn't be out of the question either. But I can go as late as the early MK4's GTIs. I've heard different things about the reliability of these cars, but I respect most everyone's opinion here and know a lot of you guys have probably owned a few of these. So give me the run down on the different years and their strengths/weaknesses?

[brant]

Mike,

which years are a mk4?

We've had 2 golfs
the first was an 87gti (mk2? I think)
it was a great car
reliable, fun
the gearing was such that it was a little buzzy on the freeway for long drives of 2+ hours
at some point (with a couple hundred thousand miles) I did a full motor swap on it and even found it relatively easy to work on

Then there is my wifes 2002 golf tdi
we bought it new, sold it with 70K-ish miles
I learned to hate that car
reliability was no where to be found
and it wasn't the diesel either... it was the chassis, the windows, the computer management, everything...
such a bad experience that we replaced it with a honda.

brant

[Downunderman]

I can thoroughly recommend a Mk 5 GTI if your budget will stretch that far.

[Gint]

Mike,

which years are a mk4?

We've had 2 golfs
the first was an 87gti (mk2? I think)
it was a great car
reliable, fun
the gearing was such that it was a little buzzy on the freeway for long drives of 2+ hours
at some point (with a couple hundred thousand miles) I did a full motor swap on it and even found it relatively easy to work on

Then there is my wifes 2002 golf tdi
we bought it new, sold it with 70K-ish miles
I learned to hate that car
reliability was no where to be found
and it wasn't the diesel either... it was the chassis, the windows, the computer management, everything...
such a bad experience that we replaced it with a honda.

brant

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) Hmmm... not the first time I've heard comments like that. Hence the question. I'm not looking to go much later than 2002.

Golf Mk2 (A2/Typ 19E, 1985-1992)
Golf Mk3 (A3/Typ 1H, 1992-1998)
Golf Mk4 (A4/Typ 1J, 1998-2005)

[Gint]

I can thoroughly recommend a Mk 5 GTI if your budget will stretch that far.

Thanks! It's not that I can't afford it, I just don't want to spend that much money for a DD that will sit i my driveway. I'd go older before I went newer.

[sixnotfour]

Then convert it to mid engine configuration;
check out what this 21yr old kid has been doing. (thinkanklebiter)
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3...105695#62105695

[Scott S]

Hi Mr Gint -
I had a MKI and a MkII Gti. I beat the living crap out of both cars and in the case of the MkII I commuted from Conifer to Boulder in it for years. Other than the normal maintenance stuff, I rarely had an issue. Burned up some clutches doing autocross and IT events - never really broke anything. The only time I was ever left stranded was when I had a fuel pump fail in the MKII. My wife at the time drove the MKII GLI - same deal - no issues.

My mom bought a MKIII Jetta and it was a TOTAL POS. I dated a gal inbetween wife 1 and 2 who had a MKIV and it too was total junk. My brother married a gal with a IV and that car was always in the shop. Piles of electrical and oxygen sensor issues on both cars. Mom also had one of the earliest TT's and it went through 4 radios, 2 guage panels and had other electrical issues as well - and she put maybe 2-3 thousand miles per year on the thing.

I would look for a 1992 2.0 16v GTI - they were cooooool.
Always wanted a scirocco (I or II) but not only was I too tall, but the insurance was a monster when I was in the 18-25 yr old age group - you shouldn't have that problem............... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Gint]

Thanks Scotty! I had two MK2 Sciroccos and Corrado. Loved 'em all! BTW, my compressor is fixed. Sent you an email also.

The only issue I have with a MK2 is the opposite of the later models I noted above. I don't want a POS or beater. Finding a nice one that hasn't been either abused or mod'd to death is an issue.

What really surprises me is that not all that long ago MK2 'roccos were all over the place locally. Now they're really hard to find.

[Gint]

Then convert it to mid engine configuration;
check out what this 21yr old kid has been doing. (thinkanklebiter)
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3...105695#62105695

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) I've already got two or three mid engined cars laying around here!

[VaccaRabite]

There were SERIOUS quality control issues on the MkIII and MKIV VW cars sold in the US. So serious, in fact, that VW was considering pulling out of the US market before the New Beetle was a smash and saved VAG.

I loved my MkIII Golf, but by 70K miles it was nickle and dime every month, and by 120K miles I was unsure if it would make my commute to work at any given morning. The engine was a fucking ROCK, but everything around the engine was falling apart.

The later MkIII cars are better then the early MKIII cars. The MkIV cars will have side windows falling into the car and coil packs randomly failing - which strands you.

If it were me, I'd put a TDi into an MkII body and have the best of both worlds.

Zach

[jonferns]

I had a '99 Jetta (MK3), great car. It was a 2.0 and I gave it hell everyday and it never failed me, plus got great gas mileage. Lots of people complain of electrical problems in VW's, but i've never experienced any in my mk3. I sold mine a few months ago to some idiot who totalled it a week after he bought it, but if I were to get one again I would stick with the 2.0, the VR6's have obviously alot more power (and sound sick with open exhausts) but they also have alot more problems and its difficult to find one with low mileage.

Dumped on a cupkit with cut springs, rolled fenders beefier sway bars, exhaust, etc. She ate tires (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
(IMG:http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q44/sendjonathanmail/IMG_4194-1.jpg)
(IMG:http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q44/sendjonathanmail/IMG_3842.jpg)
(IMG:http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q44/sendjonathanmail/IMG_4206.jpg)

[Gint]

There were SERIOUS quality control issues on the MkIII and MKIV VW cars sold in the US. So serious, in fact, that VW was considering pulling out of the US market before the New Beetle was a smash and saved VAG.

I've heard the new beetle had a boatload of issues too. But that's another story. And I'm not looking for a chick car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif)

Keep 'em coming gang. Thanks!

[rhcb914]

I owned a 97 GTI VR6 Jazz Blue Drivers Edition that I had till 06. Overall I loved the car. Great power, descent handling and a tons of companies to supply performance parts at a reasonable price. I have had tons of watercooled VW's over the years. 84 Jetta GLI w/Audi 2.0L engine, 85 Scirocco, 84 Rabbit Cabriolet, 88 Fox. The GTI was by far the most refined of them all and the VR6 put the car in a different league. It was smooth as silk when it was running right.

The bad...From the day I got it small things would break. Exterior door moulding would never stay on. Coil packs I must have replaced them 10 times over the time I owned the car (luckily I bought the extended warranty and had a friend at the dealer). Ball joints, tie rod ends, a CV joint, motor mounts. Then at 100K the thermostat and waterpump needed to be replaced. Given the amount of things I had to replace you must think that I beat on the car...I really didn't. I actually beat on it less than the Jetta, Scirocco and Rabbit that I had at the same time. Those were my beaters, the GTI was my nice day weekend car.

For a daily ride I would probably not recommend the car unless you have some pretty deep pockets to fix the ton of issues that will come up.

[Gary]

Had an '86 Jetta - $6k out the door new. Loved that car. Drove it hard with no issues until a bigger family forced us into a minivan. 2 ys ago we bought a B6 Passat. 30K and absolutely trouble free. MKIII and IV reliability issues kept me away from VW until now.

Would sure love to see the bluesport and amarok come to market.

[dlo914]

Ever thought about a VW Corrado VR6? Love how they look w/ BBS LMs:
(IMG:http://www.cargurus.com/images/2009/07/11/15/42/1994-volkswagen-corrado-pic-63096.jpeg)
i browsed craigslist in the Denver area and they're going for around $1200-$4000.

As for the MK3 Jetta. A friend had a VR6 and the power window motors would constantly go out and his tranny went out once. He eventually sold the thing b/c it was in the shop so often. But it sounded quite nice at full throttle w/ a free flowing magnaflow exhaust system.

[Gearhead1432]

I've had MK IV VWs for a few years now. I put a little more than 20,000 miles on my '03 Jetta GLI before I traded it for a 2004 R32 I drive now. The only problems I've had are a few light bulbs and one of the original coilpacks failing (89Kmiles). As far as I know the 1.8T and 24vVR6 engine came with problematic coilpacks. Over all my impression is that these are well built cars. The quality seems to have improved since the early MKIVs, then again, years ago my father warned me to never buy the first year of a new model.

-Rob

[Gint]

Ever thought about a VW Corrado VR6? Love how they look w/ BBS LMs:

i browsed craigslist in the Denver area and they're going for around $1200-$4000.

I had a G60 as I said before. I loved the car. Kind of looking to go a little different though because I had one of those already, you know? And what you don't know from browsing craigslist is that most of the Corrados that come on the market here are hashed. I don't really want a project. I can afford to buy a nicer one if it came up and I didn't have to travel to check it out. It's not totally out of the question.

[arvcube]

Mk1s,2s, and 3s are easy to work on. good cars if maintained. i'd go for Mk1s if you can find a decent one....

(IMG:http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/arvcube/IMG_0176.jpg)

[wayne1234]

What are you guys doing to your cars (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) just kidding.. I have a 2000 Audi TT that I have done a quite a few mods on. There are certain things you can almost count on as you get more miles on these cars , the problems are all documented and if you get on the VWvortex forums you will see how to diagnose and repair and mod almost everything.. I consider most of them to be regular maintance for these cars.. but some thinks electronics should last forever.. as mentioned coil packs cause many people hardaches, but if you replace all 4 somewhere around 70-80k you wont have any problems. This is a known wear item, if you dont replace them all at the same time you may have problems again.. cost on all 4 last time I checked was a little over $100. and of course replace the plugs at the same time... if you wait till one goes out the car will run like crap erratic idle spit and sputter and throw all kinds of codes... also when you change the coil packs check the aluminum mating surface(valve cover) for corrosion , this is how the coil is grounded... many people chase this simple problem... No one has mentioned the Timing belt... it is a must to change on the 1.8 turbo cars... Actually you change the timing belt, the water pump (with metal impeller) tensioner, and idler, all at the same time again 70k is when you want to start thinking about this, there is a really nice write up on the vortex... and the parts arent all that expensive ... most shops charge about 900 parts and labor to do this. I think parts are about $250-300... you must check injector seals also again a common leak area... very cheap and easy to repair the injector seals. I have over 100K on my TT and wouldnt hesitate to drive it across country tonight... the windows as mentioned earlier can be a problem if it is below freezing and you use the windows the ice can stick the window and snap plastic pieces in the door. I have head of them falling off track, but usually they act funny before this happens so you may have some warning that the parts are wearing and you should look into it before it falls out... I havent had any window problems in my TT.. I have a boost controller and water meth injection forge blow off valve,MAp bypass,it has the sport springs. you cant beat the sound of that turbo. oh and the power is nice too and All wheel drive.. Even thogh it shares the same platform as the golf and drive train as many other dubs you might check out a TT they usually arent much more than a VW, and thy arent as common, but I am biased ... I dont regret mine one bit....The TT has been my baby for the last 4-5 years, of course my new obsession is the 914 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) so it hasent had its usual mods or upgrades lately

[dlo914]

Oh okay. In that case, i'd settle for a nice Mk1 or 2 scirocco. Here's a nice one: (IMG:http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h51/chansen-303/OZs1.jpg)
http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/1497025569.html

Or this Mk2 GTi:
(IMG:http://images.craigslist.org/3nf3k13lb5Td5P75R79bq49d508f1a04d158c.jpg)
http://cosprings.craigslist.org/cto/1483192176.html

or this one
(IMG:http://images.craigslist.org/3n03m93pe5U05P25R19cf45bc1da088ab196e.jpg)
http://cosprings.craigslist.org/cto/1510972352.html