I don't want to spend a fortune and I don't buy new cars anymore anyway. I like the fact that I can get into cars I've always liked without losing my shorts or spending a a ton of cash. I have a 914, a 4WD truck and a DD (the DD will be replaced with this car) so absolute dependability isn't the most important factor as I can deal with one car having a little down time.

I've been wanting to get an old water cooled VW again for quite awhile. While I'd prefer a MK1 Scirocco or GTI, they aren't exactly plentiful anymore. So I'm looking at the later GTIs. Of course a Scirocco wouldn't be out of the question either. But I can go as late as the early MK4's GTIs. I've heard different things about the reliability of these cars, but I respect most everyone's opinion here and know a lot of you guys have probably owned a few of these. So give me the run down on the different years and their strengths/weaknesses?

Mike,

which years are a mk4?

We've had 2 golfs
the first was an 87gti (mk2? I think)
it was a great car
reliable, fun
the gearing was such that it was a little buzzy on the freeway for long drives of 2+ hours
at some point (with a couple hundred thousand miles) I did a full motor swap on it and even found it relatively easy to work on

Then there is my wifes 2002 golf tdi
we bought it new, sold it with 70K-ish miles
I learned to hate that car
reliability was no where to be found
and it wasn't the diesel either... it was the chassis, the windows, the computer management, everything...
such a bad experience that we replaced it with a honda.

brant

I can thoroughly recommend a Mk 5 GTI if your budget will stretch that far.

Hmmm... not the first time I've heard comments like that. Hence the question. I'm not looking to go much later than 2002.

Golf Mk2 (A2/Typ 19E, 1985-1992)
Golf Mk3 (A3/Typ 1H, 1992-1998)
Golf Mk4 (A4/Typ 1J, 1998-2005)

Thanks! It's not that I can't afford it, I just don't want to spend that much money for a DD that will sit i my driveway. I'd go older before I went newer.

Then convert it to mid engine configuration;
check out what this 21yr old kid has been doing. (thinkanklebiter)
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3...105695#62105695

Hi Mr Gint -
I had a MKI and a MkII Gti. I beat the living crap out of both cars and in the case of the MkII I commuted from Conifer to Boulder in it for years. Other than the normal maintenance stuff, I rarely had an issue. Burned up some clutches doing autocross and IT events - never really broke anything. The only time I was ever left stranded was when I had a fuel pump fail in the MKII. My wife at the time drove the MKII GLI - same deal - no issues.

My mom bought a MKIII Jetta and it was a TOTAL POS. I dated a gal inbetween wife 1 and 2 who had a MKIV and it too was total junk. My brother married a gal with a IV and that car was always in the shop. Piles of electrical and oxygen sensor issues on both cars. Mom also had one of the earliest TT's and it went through 4 radios, 2 guage panels and had other electrical issues as well - and she put maybe 2-3 thousand miles per year on the thing.

I would look for a 1992 2.0 16v GTI - they were cooooool.
Always wanted a scirocco (I or II) but not only was I too tall, but the insurance was a monster when I was in the 18-25 yr old age group - you shouldn't have that problem...............

Thanks Scotty! I had two MK2 Sciroccos and Corrado. Loved 'em all! BTW, my compressor is fixed. Sent you an email also.

The only issue I have with a MK2 is the opposite of the later models I noted above. I don't want a POS or beater. Finding a nice one that hasn't been either abused or mod'd to death is an issue.

What really surprises me is that not all that long ago MK2 'roccos were all over the place locally. Now they're really hard to find.

I've already got two or three mid engined cars laying around here!

There were SERIOUS quality control issues on the MkIII and MKIV VW cars sold in the US. So serious, in fact, that VW was considering pulling out of the US market before the New Beetle was a smash and saved VAG.

I loved my MkIII Golf, but by 70K miles it was nickle and dime every month, and by 120K miles I was unsure if it would make my commute to work at any given morning. The engine was a fucking ROCK, but everything around the engine was falling apart.

The later MkIII cars are better then the early MKIII cars. The MkIV cars will have side windows falling into the car and coil packs randomly failing - which strands you.

If it were me, I'd put a TDi into an MkII body and have the best of both worlds.

Zach

I had a '99 Jetta (MK3), great car. It was a 2.0 and I gave it hell everyday and it never failed me, plus got great gas mileage. Lots of people complain of electrical problems in VW's, but i've never experienced any in my mk3. I sold mine a few months ago to some idiot who totalled it a week after he bought it, but if I were to get one again I would stick with the 2.0, the VR6's have obviously alot more power (and sound sick with open exhausts) but they also have alot more problems and its difficult to find one with low mileage.

Dumped on a cupkit with cut springs, rolled fenders beefier sway bars, exhaust, etc. She ate tires

I've heard the new beetle had a boatload of issues too. But that's another story. And I'm not looking for a chick car.

Keep 'em coming gang. Thanks!

I owned a 97 GTI VR6 Jazz Blue Drivers Edition that I had till 06. Overall I loved the car. Great power, descent handling and a tons of companies to supply performance parts at a reasonable price. I have had tons of watercooled VW's over the years. 84 Jetta GLI w/Audi 2.0L engine, 85 Scirocco, 84 Rabbit Cabriolet, 88 Fox. The GTI was by far the most refined of them all and the VR6 put the car in a different league. It was smooth as silk when it was running right.

The bad...From the day I got it small things would break. Exterior door moulding would never stay on. Coil packs I must have replaced them 10 times over the time I owned the car (luckily I bought the extended warranty and had a friend at the dealer). Ball joints, tie rod ends, a CV joint, motor mounts. Then at 100K the thermostat and waterpump needed to be replaced. Given the amount of things I had to replace you must think that I beat on the car...I really didn't. I actually beat on it less than the Jetta, Scirocco and Rabbit that I had at the same time. Those were my beaters, the GTI was my nice day weekend car.

For a daily ride I would probably not recommend the car unless you have some pretty deep pockets to fix the ton of issues that will come up.

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Had an '86 Jetta - $6k out the door new. Loved that car. Drove it hard with no issues until a bigger family forced us into a minivan. 2 ys ago we bought a B6 Passat. 30K and absolutely trouble free. MKIII and IV reliability issues kept me away from VW until now.

Would sure love to see the bluesport and amarok come to market.

Ever thought about a VW Corrado VR6? Love how they look w/ BBS LMs:

i browsed craigslist in the Denver area and they're going for around $1200-$4000.

As for the MK3 Jetta. A friend had a VR6 and the power window motors would constantly go out and his tranny went out once. He eventually sold the thing b/c it was in the shop so often. But it sounded quite nice at full throttle w/ a free flowing magnaflow exhaust system.

I've had MK IV VWs for a few years now. I put a little more than 20,000 miles on my '03 Jetta GLI before I traded it for a 2004 R32 I drive now. The only problems I've had are a few light bulbs and one of the original coilpacks failing (89Kmiles). As far as I know the 1.8T and 24vVR6 engine came with problematic coilpacks. Over all my impression is that these are well built cars. The quality seems to have improved since the early MKIVs, then again, years ago my father warned me to never buy the first year of a new model.

-Rob

I had a G60 as I said before. I loved the car. Kind of looking to go a little different though because I had one of those already, you know? And what you don't know from browsing craigslist is that most of the Corrados that come on the market here are hashed. I don't really want a project. I can afford to buy a nicer one if it came up and I didn't have to travel to check it out. It's not totally out of the question.

Mk1s,2s, and 3s are easy to work on. good cars if maintained. i'd go for Mk1s if you can find a decent one....

What are you guys doing to your cars just kidding.. I have a 2000 Audi TT that I have done a quite a few mods on. There are certain things you can almost count on as you get more miles on these cars , the problems are all documented and if you get on the VWvortex forums you will see how to diagnose and repair and mod almost everything.. I consider most of them to be regular maintance for these cars.. but some thinks electronics should last forever.. as mentioned coil packs cause many people hardaches, but if you replace all 4 somewhere around 70-80k you wont have any problems. This is a known wear item, if you dont replace them all at the same time you may have problems again.. cost on all 4 last time I checked was a little over $100. and of course replace the plugs at the same time... if you wait till one goes out the car will run like crap erratic idle spit and sputter and throw all kinds of codes... also when you change the coil packs check the aluminum mating surface(valve cover) for corrosion , this is how the coil is grounded... many people chase this simple problem... No one has mentioned the Timing belt... it is a must to change on the 1.8 turbo cars... Actually you change the timing belt, the water pump (with metal impeller) tensioner, and idler, all at the same time again 70k is when you want to start thinking about this, there is a really nice write up on the vortex... and the parts arent all that expensive ... most shops charge about 900 parts and labor to do this. I think parts are about $250-300... you must check injector seals also again a common leak area... very cheap and easy to repair the injector seals. I have over 100K on my TT and wouldnt hesitate to drive it across country tonight... the windows as mentioned earlier can be a problem if it is below freezing and you use the windows the ice can stick the window and snap plastic pieces in the door. I have head of them falling off track, but usually they act funny before this happens so you may have some warning that the parts are wearing and you should look into it before it falls out... I havent had any window problems in my TT.. I have a boost controller and water meth injection forge blow off valve,MAp bypass,it has the sport springs. you cant beat the sound of that turbo. oh and the power is nice too and All wheel drive.. Even thogh it shares the same platform as the golf and drive train as many other dubs you might check out a TT they usually arent much more than a VW, and thy arent as common, but I am biased ... I dont regret mine one bit....The TT has been my baby for the last 4-5 years, of course my new obsession is the 914 so it hasent had its usual mods or upgrades lately

Oh okay. In that case, i'd settle for a nice Mk1 or 2 scirocco. Here's a nice one:
http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/1497025569.html

Or this Mk2 GTi:

http://cosprings.craigslist.org/cto/1483192176.html

or this one

http://cosprings.craigslist.org/cto/1510972352.html

Thanks Wayne. Good info and practical advice. I might be getting too old and fat to get in and out of a TT every day.

Dlo,

Appreciate it, but you don't have to show me every link on craigslist within 75 miles. I've seen them all. I'm not asking anyone to find candidates for me. I'm already looking a very nice GLI. I'll post a link here when the deal either goes through or falls through (seller already has an interested buyer so it might). Having said that, I'm looking for very little molested example, 16v preferred. And I hate leather. Don't want a car that has a roll bar installed and the interior stripped either.

I'm primarily concerned in folks' actual experience with the three gens of VW and their good and bad qualities. Appreciate the feedback guys. Thanks a lot!

Hi Gint,

I currently have a 2001 GTI with the 1.8 T engine. It has been a great car for the most part with a few check engine lights (I hate that thing) but, overall very reliable and a lot of fun to drive. The MKII's were great and I owned a bunch of them re DD's, SOLO II, and Road Raced a few too. Challenge these days is parts as they are getting a little older. Remember I am in Canada and Nova Scotia so we don't have any where near the volume of cars that you guys see in the States so parts may not be as challenging.

The '01 gets great gas mileage and is a good all around car. Typical GTI re hatch, you can put just about anything in them, great in snow with snow tires. If you could find one of the 337's or 20Anniversary Models with a Six Speed Transmission that would be even nicer on the highway but, the 5 Speed is not too bad either. I average about 120 Kph or about 75 - 80 Mph on the highway and it is comfortable.

I would tend to stay away from the Mk III's as they seemed to have a lot of Rust Issues. The Mk IV was a step in the right direction and yes, if you can get your hands on Mk 5, they truly are a great car.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Grant

It does not seem to matter how hard you drive these things, they seem to get the same gas mileage.

I had a 92 Passat with the 16v 2.0. The engine was fantastic. It ran like a champ. I can't recommend it enough. All the other stuff like power windows, heater controls, motor mounts, wheel bearings and shift cable gave me fits. I'd take the 92 16v GTI in a heartbeat.

Same here my first car was a 88 GTI 16v. Great car, I would definitely recommend it. Good on gas, great in the snow (with snow tires), fun to drive. Ergonomically everything in that car was placed really well for me, fit like a glove.

Good Luck!

I thought for sure Cap'n Krusty would weigh in on this topic.

Hey Gint, I had a 77 Scirocco and 1990 Corrado. The Scirocco I had when I was stationed in Alabama. The car was fine on short trips, but anything more than a couple hours it would vapor lock. Definetly gets abit warmer down there than up by you. Pump was replaced and the issue started again. Relay issue maybe? Was a pia to get back to NJ irregardless. Other issues were the fuze box. Water would seep in from the cowl area and cause some minor electrical issues. At least on mine. The wipers would go on if I hit a bump. Other than those issues, the car was easy to maintian and was alot of fun to drive. The hatchback with the fold down seats always came in handy. Prefered the G60 over it, but was a fun car overall. Alfa GTV6 looks alot like one (same designer).. another car I also wanted to own. Keep up on the timing belts on it, and should be a fun car too.

You know where I stand LOVED mine

Here I am, late to the party. NOTHING like the Mk 1 GTi. Big bux to find a decent one now. I've had two, and I'd buy another in a heartbeat. If you find one, BE SURE the chassis isn't torn around the subframe mounting points! I had a both an 8v and a 16v Mk 2 GTi, at the same time, and liked the 8v better. The 16v felt heavy. Corrados drive like pigs, IME. I had a 77 Scirocco and loved it. The Mk2 Scirocco I had suffered from another case of newer/heavier/uglier syndrome, and was never the fun car the '77 was. I have a 2002 Jetta TDi sedan and a 2003 Jetta TDi Wagon. Both have, in the past, been front hit, and both are sticks. The wagon has a salvage title. NEVER a problem with either, once I took care of the usual used car crap. The wagon is about to be reverse gearless, but I knew that when I bought it, and that's OK. BTW, I have an 85 Jetta with a GTi engine and a regular non-GTi tranny, which has held up well and gives MUCH better cruise comfort and fuel mileage. Probably has about 400K on the chassis, and 350K on the junkyard motor. Seems a bit crude compared to the Mk 4 cars, because it is.

BTW, the body guy doing a little work for me right now drives a Mazda 3 sport wagon sort of thing. Nice car, probably make a great DD if you decide to look around at cars other than VWs. The Cap'n

A 2003 that has been problem-free since new, but then it only has 14K on the clock. Sure is fun to drive.

Not sure of your budget but a mid 90's bmw 5 series is a great car and they are selling for short money.
Why, my guess is that they are to old for the executives that want a 5 series, and they are to heavy for the kids who want the 3 series toys.

Just another thought...they go run for 200-400k miles.

I just got one.
I have had three Mk1 rabbits and two dasher wagons. All diesels and I loved them all and miss them all.
I just sold a 96 passat Vr6....it was full of small issues.
I suspect if you find any year that you like...give it a few weeks of chasing the small issues and it would be a great car.
I would NEVER get an automatic tranny by VW...never had one and never will. I think they just dont know how to design a decent automatic that will not die.

I currently have an alive and well (thank you Cap'n) 1993 Eurovan that I love. It is a fantastic truck. Everything works...
This is my DD till the BMW is done with the list of stuff I need to do. The Eurovan is a 5 speed and I tow all my cars with it, on a trailer...its a 1 ton truck.

Rich

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A couple bucks more and get into a used low mileage MK5 . It's got the 2.0 FSI turbo and a 6 speed DSG trans with traction control. The trans will upshift in .2 sec, and rev-match downshifts automatically.
Our DD has 30k miles on it, and it's been hot-rodded with APR flash tune, GHL 3" SS hi-flow cat, Neuspeed air intake w/msds cone filter. It pulls and corners like a RWD, and still gets 27 mpg on the highway. The only problem is door weatherstripping that I've glued back on twice, and some of the typical VW plastic things coming off here and there.
Marty

Here's an old shot I dug up from the 1977? New York auto show.

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2.0 FSI motors are explosions just waiting to happen. Junk yards can't fill the demand for used motors. The intake valve stems get covered with carbon deposits, and they aren't kept clean by fuel because the injectors shoot directly into the combustion chambers. Eventually the carbon begins to flake off, holding the valves(s)
open just far enough to cause one, or more, to hit the piston(s). Sure, you can regularly clean the valve stems, but it's about a 5-6 hour job for someone who does 'em all the time.

FWIW, I agree with the statements above about the auto trannies. I'd NEVER buy a transverse engined VW auto. Never. The Cap'n

Mk1s vs MK2s being heavier cars are a fact of life. While I agree they feel heavier, and the Mk1 is preferred to me as well, they just aren't as plentiful any more, especially in decent condition. And while the Corrado feels a bit duller and heavier yet, to this day I still miss that G60 whenever I think about it.

A 635 is still on my list to be crossed off one day. So many cars, so little time.

Tod, Love that pic!

Paul, I got your email. I thank you very much and that's a nice looking car.

But...

Negotiating for a Mk2 GLi 16v - Not a done deal yet, but it's a pretty safe bet at this point. It will either be in my driveway midnight Friday or I'll still be on the hunt. I love the chase. I don't know why...

Mike here are a few of my thoughts
Steer clear of any dub 91 or newer as they are just trouble!!
but the early mk1 and 2s are great, with plentiful parts to be had
an early round headlight rabbit are tons of fun and can be pumped up with all sorts of goodies
but for a daily i would pick a two/four door 85-90 golf with an 8 valve head and a five speed(simple is better) with stock suspension and 10.1 fronts,and big rear drums
i am not a fan of jettas as they don't have the cargo space
the roccos are super cool but not as practical for hauling 914 parts
(but i would also stay clear of any sixteen valve engines unless they are well documented rebuilds if you need a screamer build up an solid lifter 8v)
and if you come across any early audi 2.0 in your hunt give me a call

I can't speak to the GTI, but I've had a '00 Jetta (MK4, 4cyl 2.0L) that has been really reliable. A few more little things than I would like (switches, trim pieces, etc.) but -- aside from regular maintenance -- all I've done is alternator, timing belt/water pump, and a clutch just last month (at 138K miles). I'm pretty confident I'll get another 20-30K out of it before I find something new. Mike

Gint, I inheireted a 2001 Jetta from my father in law with 32k on it. Had it two years, check engine lights, mass airflow sensors, and now today it wouldn't start after stopping at a friends for a couple of minutes. Cel phone to my dealer, said my key probably lost it's programming. I don't know how early you have to go, but I would stay away from the later cars. We also have a Subaru Outback, bullet proof. Al.

E30 325is' are pretty fun straight out of the box. 2.7L inline six w/ a stock LSD. Friend had one and was pretty fun to drive, but it had it's little issues like certain electronics on the dash or radio area would come n go. And like a 914 the valves required adjusting, but other than that they're pretty bullet proof.

Man, I better sell my '99 Passat fast...it has an automatic and 270K. If you can't afford to replace the expensive front end every two years then don't buy one, very poor design.The '99 passat is basically a rebadged Audi A4, I guess a bit more than just a badge but it's the same chassis, same expensive junk front end.
95 golf has over 300k and the clutch is just barely starting to slip. But I have 2 donner cars that were given to me free.
All VW's you have to replace the timing belt's regularly, it's how the wenches make their money. I bet Crusty does a couple every week.
Both cars have plastic bits that are falling apart.

Never liked a scirocco, no headroom and that drives me nuts. Tod looking at that pic I'd guess we're about the same age.

IMO both my cars are junk, I got them both super cheap and I have had not enough problems to ditch them yet. I would never buy a new VW.
My Little toyota 22R truck went 550K, still ran fine but rust never sleeps. My Toyota ....umm, crap can't even remember the model... station wagon also went 500+K before it was retied to field car status. I'd buy a new Toyota or something before I'd ever buy a VW.

Mike - I had an '86 Golf GL 4 door I bought in '91. Living in Maui at the time, I had to be in SmeLA for 6 months or so and needed some wheels. The car had only 30K+ miles and was very clean, especially for the $3300 I gave for it! I drove the snot out of that Golf for 6 months, putting 10,000 miles on it. I dumped $200 in oil changes, a cheap head unit, and some tint into it - and sold it for $4K at the end of my stay. It ran like a champ, not without issue though. The internal fuel pump went out on it, which I considered strange on a car with such low mileage. I actually called VW of USA to inquire. The customer rep informed me that my vin# did fall under recall for the pump and they would replace it. When I told her I had already replaced it myself, she offered to reimburse me for the part if I could provide a receipt. Since I did the work myself, she colud not pay me for labor, but did mail me a check for the part! Try that with Toyota or Honda! Other than the pump going out, that Golf ran beautifully for the short time I owned it, taking 10K miles worth of more than a fair amount of abuse.

I bought this and drove it home from Salt Lake. Stopped in to see the Sheaster while I was in town.

54k original mile Mk2 GLI 16v

Although now it has 55k miles after the 500+ mile trip home. Just got here 20 minutes ago.

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Good choice! Mine works perfect for a daily commuter.
Enjoy the seats. They are by far the best for my lame back.

Pic won't attach I'll work on it tomorrow when I have more time.

You want a mk3 2.0 GTi and here is why:

1. A mk2 has CIS or CIS-E/motronic which is 100% garbage and parts are hard to find + super expensive. You will be pissed if/when someone hits your nice now vintage mk2 GTi also since it is a daily

2. a MKIV GTi will not stay stock, ask me. I had a nice lightly modded one with a helical diff and in a year I had a 400whp transmission eating most anything on the street eating burnout machine. I still drive mine daily with all the poly and super stiff springs.. but i could not resist modding it. Also unless you are in love with fixing neglected electrics under the hood, run.

You will end up here in short order once you taste what a 5v turbo audi motor can do(this is a medium turbo only):




3. MK3 GTi parts are super cheap for the 2.0, tons in junkyards. The VR6 is a maintenance nightmare when it needs timing chains, you remove the trans and half the motor, it also makes poor power for its displacement because the headflow is crap on a stick.


Be sure to get a MK3 GTi with rear discs, i think they all had them. Or even a Golf Sport 2.0 with rear disc.


I have pwned all of these and if I could do it again I would have gotten a stock mk3 2.0 golf sport to daily drive. Comfier than a mk2 slightly and ease of parts, and a lack of now hard to find and expensive CIS parts.



DOH I missed you bought something. Oops.... that is a very nice GLi!

When CIS acts up, go megasquirt. The conversion is not hard, you will need a 16v automatic passat throttle body, it has the TPS sensor you want.

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