SOT: Considering a MK2, 3 or 4 VW GTI for my new DD, Give me the good, the bad, and the ugly... Options

[Gint]

What are you guys doing to your cars (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) just kidding.. I have a 2000 Audi TT that I have done a quite a few mods on. There are certain things you can almost count on as you get more miles on these cars , the problems are all documented and if you get on the VWvortex forums you will see how to diagnose and repair and mod almost everything.. I consider most of them to be regular maintance for these cars.. but some thinks electronics should last forever.. as mentioned coil packs cause many people hardaches, but if you replace all 4 somewhere around 70-80k you wont have any problems. This is a known wear item, if you dont replace them all at the same time you may have problems again.. cost on all 4 last time I checked was a little over $100. and of course replace the plugs at the same time... if you wait till one goes out the car will run like crap erratic idle spit and sputter and throw all kinds of codes... also when you change the coil packs check the aluminum mating surface(valve cover) for corrosion , this is how the coil is grounded... many people chase this simple problem... No one has mentioned the Timing belt... it is a must to change on the 1.8 turbo cars... Actually you change the timing belt, the water pump (with metal impeller) tensioner, and idler, all at the same time again 70k is when you want to start thinking about this, there is a really nice write up on the vortex... and the parts arent all that expensive ... most shops charge about 900 parts and labor to do this. I think parts are about $250-300... you must check injector seals also again a common leak area... very cheap and easy to repair the injector seals. I have over 100K on my TT and wouldnt hesitate to drive it across country tonight... the windows as mentioned earlier can be a problem if it is below freezing and you use the windows the ice can stick the window and snap plastic pieces in the door. I have head of them falling off track, but usually they act funny before this happens so you may have some warning that the parts are wearing and you should look into it before it falls out... I havent had any window problems in my TT.. I have a boost controller and water meth injection forge blow off valve,MAp bypass,it has the sport springs. you cant beat the sound of that turbo. oh and the power is nice too and All wheel drive.. Even thogh it shares the same platform as the golf and drive train as many other dubs you might check out a TT they usually arent much more than a VW, and thy arent as common, but I am biased ... I dont regret mine one bit....The TT has been my baby for the last 4-5 years, of course my new obsession is the 914 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) so it hasent had its usual mods or upgrades lately

Thanks Wayne. Good info and practical advice. I might be getting too old and fat to get in and out of a TT every day. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Gint]

Dlo,

Appreciate it, but you don't have to show me every link on craigslist within 75 miles. I've seen them all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I'm not asking anyone to find candidates for me. I'm already looking a very nice GLI. I'll post a link here when the deal either goes through or falls through (seller already has an interested buyer so it might). Having said that, I'm looking for very little molested example, 16v preferred. And I hate leather. Don't want a car that has a roll bar installed and the interior stripped either. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'm primarily concerned in folks' actual experience with the three gens of VW and their good and bad qualities. Appreciate the feedback guys. Thanks a lot!

[NS914]

I don't want to spend a fortune and I don't buy new cars anymore anyway. I like the fact that I can get into cars I've always liked without losing my shorts or spending a ton of cash. I have a 914, a 4WD truck and a DD (the DD will be replaced with this car) so absolute dependability isn't the most important factor as I can deal with one car having a little down time.

I've been wanting to get an old water cooled VW again for quite awhile. While I'd prefer a MK1 Scirocco or GTI, they aren't exactly plentiful anymore. So I'm looking at the later GTIs. Of course a Scirocco wouldn't be out of the question either. But I can go as late as the early MK4's GTIs. I've heard different things about the reliability of these cars, but I respect most everyone's opinion here and know a lot of you guys have probably owned a few of these. So give me the run down on the different years and their strengths/weaknesses?

Hi Gint,

I currently have a 2001 GTI with the 1.8 T engine. It has been a great car for the most part with a few check engine lights (I hate that thing) but, overall very reliable and a lot of fun to drive. The MKII's were great and I owned a bunch of them re DD's, SOLO II, and Road Raced a few too. Challenge these days is parts as they are getting a little older. Remember I am in Canada and Nova Scotia so we don't have any where near the volume of cars that you guys see in the States so parts may not be as challenging.

The '01 gets great gas mileage and is a good all around car. Typical GTI re hatch, you can put just about anything in them, great in snow with snow tires. If you could find one of the 337's or 20Anniversary Models with a Six Speed Transmission that would be even nicer on the highway but, the 5 Speed is not too bad either. I average about 120 Kph or about 75 - 80 Mph on the highway and it is comfortable.

I would tend to stay away from the Mk III's as they seemed to have a lot of Rust Issues. The Mk IV was a step in the right direction and yes, if you can get your hands on Mk 5, they truly are a great car.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Grant

It does not seem to matter how hard you drive these things, they seem to get the same gas mileage.

[jmill]

I would look for a 1992 2.0 16v GTI

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I had a 92 Passat with the 16v 2.0. The engine was fantastic. It ran like a champ. I can't recommend it enough. All the other stuff like power windows, heater controls, motor mounts, wheel bearings and shift cable gave me fits. I'd take the 92 16v GTI in a heartbeat.

[jtf914]

I would look for a 1992 2.0 16v GTI

Same here my first car was a 88 GTI 16v. Great car, I would definitely recommend it. Good on gas, great in the snow (with snow tires), fun to drive. Ergonomically everything in that car was placed really well for me, fit like a glove.

Good Luck!

[Gint]

I thought for sure Cap'n Krusty would weigh in on this topic.

[tod914]

Hey Gint, I had a 77 Scirocco and 1990 Corrado. The Scirocco I had when I was stationed in Alabama. The car was fine on short trips, but anything more than a couple hours it would vapor lock. Definetly gets abit warmer down there than up by you. Pump was replaced and the issue started again. Relay issue maybe? Was a pia to get back to NJ irregardless. Other issues were the fuze box. Water would seep in from the cowl area and cause some minor electrical issues. At least on mine. The wipers would go on if I hit a bump. Other than those issues, the car was easy to maintian and was alot of fun to drive. The hatchback with the fold down seats always came in handy. Prefered the G60 over it, but was a fun car overall. Alfa GTV6 looks alot like one (same designer).. another car I also wanted to own. Keep up on the timing belts on it, and should be a fun car too.

[Ferg]

You know where I stand (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) LOVED mine (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[Cap'n Krusty]

Here I am, late to the party. NOTHING like the Mk 1 GTi. Big bux to find a decent one now. I've had two, and I'd buy another in a heartbeat. If you find one, BE SURE the chassis isn't torn around the subframe mounting points! I had a both an 8v and a 16v Mk 2 GTi, at the same time, and liked the 8v better. The 16v felt heavy. Corrados drive like pigs, IME. I had a 77 Scirocco and loved it. The Mk2 Scirocco I had suffered from another case of newer/heavier/uglier syndrome, and was never the fun car the '77 was. I have a 2002 Jetta TDi sedan and a 2003 Jetta TDi Wagon. Both have, in the past, been front hit, and both are sticks. The wagon has a salvage title. NEVER a problem with either, once I took care of the usual used car crap. The wagon is about to be reverse gearless, but I knew that when I bought it, and that's OK. BTW, I have an 85 Jetta with a GTi engine and a regular non-GTi tranny, which has held up well and gives MUCH better cruise comfort and fuel mileage. Probably has about 400K on the chassis, and 350K on the junkyard motor. Seems a bit crude compared to the Mk 4 cars, because it is.

BTW, the body guy doing a little work for me right now drives a Mazda 3 sport wagon sort of thing. Nice car, probably make a great DD if you decide to look around at cars other than VWs. The Cap'n

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

A 2003 that has been problem-free since new, but then it only has 14K on the clock. Sure is fun to drive. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[r_towle]

Not sure of your budget but a mid 90's bmw 5 series is a great car and they are selling for short money.
Why, my guess is that they are to old for the executives that want a 5 series, and they are to heavy for the kids who want the 3 series toys.

Just another thought...they go run for 200-400k miles.

I just got one.
I have had three Mk1 rabbits and two dasher wagons. All diesels and I loved them all and miss them all.
I just sold a 96 passat Vr6....it was full of small issues.
I suspect if you find any year that you like...give it a few weeks of chasing the small issues and it would be a great car.
I would NEVER get an automatic tranny by VW...never had one and never will. I think they just dont know how to design a decent automatic that will not die.

I currently have an alive and well (thank you Cap'n) 1993 Eurovan that I love. It is a fantastic truck. Everything works...
This is my DD till the BMW is done with the list of stuff I need to do. The Eurovan is a 5 speed and I tow all my cars with it, on a trailer...its a 1 ton truck.

Rich

[Maltese Falcon]

A couple bucks more and get into a used low mileage MK5 . It's got the 2.0 FSI turbo and a 6 speed DSG trans with traction control. The trans will upshift in .2 sec, and rev-match downshifts automatically.
Our DD has 30k miles on it, and it's been hot-rodded with APR flash tune, GHL 3" SS hi-flow cat, Neuspeed air intake w/msds cone filter. It pulls and corners like a RWD, and still gets 27 mpg on the highway. The only problem is door weatherstripping that I've glued back on twice, and some of the typical VW plastic things coming off here and there.
Marty

[tod914]

Here's an old shot I dug up from the 1977? New York auto show.

[Cap'n Krusty]

2.0 FSI motors are explosions just waiting to happen. Junk yards can't fill the demand for used motors. The intake valve stems get covered with carbon deposits, and they aren't kept clean by fuel because the injectors shoot directly into the combustion chambers. Eventually the carbon begins to flake off, holding the valves(s)
open just far enough to cause one, or more, to hit the piston(s). Sure, you can regularly clean the valve stems, but it's about a 5-6 hour job for someone who does 'em all the time.

FWIW, I agree with the statements above about the auto trannies. I'd NEVER buy a transverse engined VW auto. Never. The Cap'n

[Gint]

Mk1s vs MK2s being heavier cars are a fact of life. While I agree they feel heavier, and the Mk1 is preferred to me as well, they just aren't as plentiful any more, especially in decent condition. And while the Corrado feels a bit duller and heavier yet, to this day I still miss that G60 whenever I think about it.

A 635 is still on my list to be crossed off one day. So many cars, so little time.

Tod, Love that pic!

Paul, I got your email. I thank you very much and that's a nice looking car.

But...

Negotiating for a Mk2 GLi 16v - Not a done deal yet, but it's a pretty safe bet at this point. It will either be in my driveway midnight Friday or I'll still be on the hunt. I love the chase. I don't know why...

[pete-stevers]

Mike here are a few of my thoughts
Steer clear of any dub 91 or newer as they are just trouble!!
but the early mk1 and 2s are great, with plentiful parts to be had
an early round headlight rabbit are tons of fun and can be pumped up with all sorts of goodies
but for a daily i would pick a two/four door 85-90 golf with an 8 valve head and a five speed(simple is better) with stock suspension and 10.1 fronts,and big rear drums
i am not a fan of jettas as they don't have the cargo space
the roccos are super cool but not as practical for hauling 914 parts
(but i would also stay clear of any sixteen valve engines unless they are well documented rebuilds if you need a screamer build up an solid lifter 8v)
and if you come across any early audi 2.0 in your hunt give me a call (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[mbrown3039]

I can't speak to the GTI, but I've had a '00 Jetta (MK4, 4cyl 2.0L) that has been really reliable. A few more little things than I would like (switches, trim pieces, etc.) but -- aside from regular maintenance -- all I've done is alternator, timing belt/water pump, and a clutch just last month (at 138K miles). I'm pretty confident I'll get another 20-30K out of it before I find something new. Mike

[al weidman]

Gint, I inheireted a 2001 Jetta from my father in law with 32k on it. Had it two years, check engine lights, mass airflow sensors, and now today it wouldn't start after stopping at a friends for a couple of minutes. Cel phone to my dealer, said my key probably lost it's programming. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) I don't know how early you have to go, but I would stay away from the later cars. We also have a Subaru Outback, bullet proof. Al.

[dlo914]

E30 325is' are pretty fun straight out of the box. 2.7L inline six w/ a stock LSD. Friend had one and was pretty fun to drive, but it had it's little issues like certain electronics on the dash or radio area would come n go. And like a 914 the valves required adjusting, but other than that they're pretty bullet proof.

[Mark Henry]

Man, I better sell my '99 Passat fast...it has an automatic (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) and 270K. If you can't afford to replace the expensive front end every two years then don't buy one, very poor design.The '99 passat is basically a rebadged Audi A4, I guess a bit more than just a badge but it's the same chassis, same expensive junk front end.
95 golf has over 300k and the clutch is just barely starting to slip. But I have 2 donner cars that were given to me free.
All VW's you have to replace the timing belt's regularly, it's how the wenches make their money. I bet Crusty does a couple every week.
Both cars have plastic bits that are falling apart.

Never liked a scirocco, no headroom and that drives me nuts. Tod looking at that pic I'd guess we're about the same age.

IMO both my cars are junk, I got them both super cheap and I have had not enough problems to ditch them yet. I would never buy a new VW.
My Little toyota 22R truck went 550K, still ran fine but rust never sleeps. My Toyota ....umm, crap can't even remember the model... station wagon also went 500+K before it was retied to field car status. I'd buy a new Toyota or something before I'd ever buy a VW.