GT Clone/Look 914 - which model to start with - 914 or /6? Options

[mharmon]

The collection knowledge on this board is pretty impressive - so here's the question - I know that I want to build a GT clone car. It doesn't need to be a dead on replica of a real GT (I simply don't have the budget for it), but I want it to be reasonably close. The car will almost certainly have a 2.5L twin plug motor, but past that I am still putting together the list of things that I definetly want and the nice to have's (if I can find them at a reasonable price).

The first big question that I need to answer though is what base car to start with - a 914 or a 914/6? Granted, modifying a 6 is not something that one would do lightly - the car is just too cool and too rare to simply start hacking away. But if I were to find a non-operable car, would all of the 6 parts that would come with it justify the incremental cost? Just looking at the cost of real 6 heat exchangers, oil systems, brakes, suspension, etc, it almost seems to me that buying a 6 and starting the project from there is the way to go.

What do you guys think?

Thanks for your advice.

Mike

[jmill]

IMHO I would start with a rust free 4 and add all the GT goodies. Your going to replace or rebuild almost everything. Starting with a 6 just costs you more for the initial purchase.

[RiqueMar]

IMHO I would start with a rust free 4 and add all the GT goodies. Your going to replace or rebuild almost everything. Starting with a 6 just costs you more for the initial purchase.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) It is very cool to start with a /6. However, from reading your post it sounds like you're on a budget. Starting with a real /6 is probably going to put you 10 grand in from the start, where as you can always find a reasonable /4. Also, regardless if it's a /6 or /4, it will still be a replica.

Just my .02 cents


Can't wait to see another Resto thread!

[smontanaro]

Maybe start with one that's a good bit of the way there? (No affiliation. Just saw it on the Bird Board...)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-car...repro-sale.html

[PeeGreen 914]

I have to agree.. If you take a car that already has flares done right or has a six installed properly, you will save a ton of time and money.

[ChicagoPete]

Mike,

I would have to say your project is an oxymoron!

Any car, be it a real 6 or a 4 with a 2.5L twin plug is not going to be on a budget!

The motor itself is a big ticket item. 89mm Mahles? JE pistons and cylinders? Twin plugging the heads. What sort of injection are you planning on? What would be accurate for that 2.5L would be 46IDA Webers.

Then what sort of gearbox are you going to build to get the most out of that motor? What gears, most of what you would want are going to run $200-$250 each. Then you would probably want a LSD as well.

Between the motor and gearbox you are at least $15K.

How much body work are you willing to do? Investing in a relatively decent 6 is a sunk cost for your project, you won't recoup anything on the parts. If you find a rough six with damage maybe more practical.

Perhaps starting with a 4 that already has some work done to it is the most economical way of going at it. GT and GT style parts are getting more expensive, good 6's are getting more expensive. BUT, a 6 with a hodgepodge of parts and an incorrect motor isn't ever going to bring the money back.

Peter

[mharmon]

Thanks for all of the responses so far guys.

To be clear, when I say that I have a budget, I don't mean the I have a limited dollar amount to work with. What I mean is that I'm going to set a dollar amount in advance that I think will cover the costs to build the car that I want to build. I don't want a sinkhole of a project, but I don't want to needlessly limit myself or waste money either.

Make sense?

[jonferns]

If you're going to make a gt clone then start with a four, no need to modify an original /6.

[SirAndy]

[Flame suit on]
If you're going through all the trouble to make a GT clone, use a real /6!
[Flame suit off]


That's what people used to use them for, race cars.
In fact, i know of a few 914 race cars in this area that have a real /6 VIN.


The factory did it ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) Andy

[RiqueMar]

[Flame suit on]
If you're going through all the trouble to make a GT clone, use a real /6!
[Flame suit off]


That's what people used to use them for, race cars.
In fact, i know of a few 914 race cars in this area that have a real /6 VIN.


The factory did it ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) Andy

Andy brings up a valid point (as always), what will the car be used for? AutoX, street, show, fun, etc?

[PeeGreen 914]

[Flame suit on]
If you're going through all the trouble to make a GT clone, use a real /6!
[Flame suit off]


That's what people used to use them for, race cars.
In fact, i know of a few 914 race cars in this area that have a real /6 VIN.


The factory did it ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) Andy

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) If you're going to go through all the trouble of doing this a real 6gt would be worth more and much cooler. However, it will cost a bit more for your base (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[zymurgist]

Time to play devil's advocate here... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Why would you modify a /6? It's not going to be a real GT and it never will be. You need history and provenance for that, and your stated intention is to make a clone anyway. I think your best bet would be to start with a /4 that has been converted to a /6 and go from there.

[jgara962]

But he stated from the beginning that he's not looking to do an exact replica - just something that looks close.

I would start with a 4. If your going to sink a bunch of money into a 6, your better off returning it to stock to retain any value.

[SirAndy]

If your going to sink a bunch of money into a 6, your better off returning it to stock to retain any value.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

First off, why would you "lose" money if you turned a /6 into a /6 GT?
The only time people pay top $$$ for a /6 is if it is a all original, low mileage, exceptionally preserved car. How many of those are still out there?

I venture to guess that if i rebuild my original /6 into a GT clone i could sell it for just as much $$$ as if i did a stock rebuild.

Secondly, a lot of real /6 were build into GTs, m471s and GT inspired race cars in the '70s. Some by the factory, many more by individuals.
I don't believe that you need any sort of racing pedigree to build a nice GT. Why does it matter if you converted your /6 to a GT in 1970 or in 2010? The process is still pretty much the same and some of the parts used today are probably better than the parts that were used 40 years ago.

Case in point, there's a nice replica of the Jagermeister GT here in the bay area. Despite a few nagging "mistakes" made by the builder, it's a very nice car.
Build on a '74 /4 chassis.
Now if that one was build on a real /6 chassis, i'd be all over it.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Andy

[Rod]

I think stock 6's are fast becoming too good and rare to butcher into a GT Replica. If a six had already been converted into a racer I would use something like that without many qualms.

I want to build a six - not a GT replica, but what 'I' want, I would go through changes to the brakes, suspension, engine and interior so basically it needs totally rebuilding, in which case I would prefer to use a slightly ratty 4, which can be breathed back into life.

I have a 4 which is in v good condition and have been tempted to increase it's performance/handling etc, but I have decided to keep it factory looking with a few upgrades under the skin and then buy another shell and accumulate parts over time to build 'my' 916 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Eric_Shea]

It depends on how "accurate" you want to be. Ask Peter.

If there's a point you feel the 914.xxx.xxxx VIN will play a factor then start there. All of the GT builds, factory or otherwise, are fairly well documented at this point. Anything new will have to be done "top notch" or it will just be another car, -6 or not -6.

IMO, if it's not going to be done to the degree Peter's car (or Armando's or Jeff's Split Pea) was finished in, it would be a mistake to use a -6 for a clone or tribute or whatever you want to call it today. There is no structural difference between that chassis and a 1970 -4 chassis.

I'm using a -4. And, while I've gone kinda crazy on it, I didn't go the route Peter did. That would be my guide so... for me, if you don't use:

Original lids
Original bumpers
Original seats
etc... (I think you get the point)

...you'll be potentially hurting the value of a -6. Again, all dependent on the work performed etc.

[jgara962]

If your going to sink a bunch of money into a 6, your better off returning it to stock to retain any value.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

First off, why would you "lose" money if you turned a /6 into a /6 GT?
The only time people pay top $$$ for a /6 is if it is a all original, low mileage, exceptionally preserved car. How many of those are still out there?

I venture to guess that if i rebuild my original /6 into a GT clone i could sell it for just as much $$$ as if i did a stock rebuild.

Secondly, a lot of real /6 were build into GTs, m471s and GT inspired race cars in the '70s. Some by the factory, many more by individuals.
I don't believe that you need any sort of racing pedigree to build a nice GT. Why does it matter if you converted your /6 to a GT in 1970 or in 2010? The process is still pretty much the same and some of the parts used today are probably better than the parts that were used 40 years ago.

Case in point, there's a nice replica of the Jagermeister GT here in the bay area. Despite a few nagging "mistakes" made by the builder, it's a very nice car.
Build on a '74 /4 chassis.
Now if that one was build on a real /6 chassis, i'd be all over it.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Andy

I guess it all depends on what you start with. If your project car is a disaster, then your going to spend a lot of money no matter if you bring it back to show condition or make it a GT replica. If you start with something halfway decent, why spend the extra money to put flares on, get new wheels, interior, etc. You see it all the time at auctione like BJ where a bone stock car commands more as it was originally built than ones that are turned into tribute cars or clones.

[SirAndy]

You see it all the time at auctione like BJ where a bone stock car commands more as it was originally built than ones that are turned into tribute cars or clones.

I didn't think his intention was to flip his car for a profit.

But even then, if you need to restore the 914/6, it'll never command top dollars.
All the ones i have seen that went for over $30k were low mileage, original cars.
I don't think any restored /6 will sell in that range for quite a few years to come.

Given the choice between a nicely restored stock /6 and a nicely restored GT replica /6 i just don't think the stock car would fetch significantly more.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) Andy

[Chris Pincetich]

Show or go? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Do you want a rad 914 to drive in the next 2 years, or are you looking for that "it's never done" 10 year build?
That's how I would decide 4 vs 6 platform. If you want a drawn out project to cruise and show, start with a real 6. I would buy a decent GT clone and focus on refreshing it with that wild motor you have planned, which will cost as much as the starting platform.
Wonder why Andy didn't offer up his shell? Hmmmm (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[SirAndy]

I think stock 6's are fast becoming too good and rare to butcher into a GT Replica.

butcher? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)