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> carb rebuild question, throttle bearings
tat2dphreak
post Mar 15 2010, 08:31 AM
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ok, my set of weber 40s... they are old(built in the early 80s by his estimation). my mechanic cannot replace the throttle bearings and thus, they do not idle right once the engine gets warm, it's like they are always slightly "cracked" open, when warm.

is there a place that can rebuild these and make them "new" again? or is it time to start carb shopping?

fron what I understand, the new carbs have a plate on the front, and one on the back that can be removed to replace the throttle shaft bearings, but this set only has 1 plate, so the bearings are not replaced(at least by normal means)
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Van
post Mar 15 2010, 09:28 AM
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On my 44s, the bearing pops right out when you drive the shaft out...

You mean #21 on this diagram?

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.redlineweber.com-8571-1268666930.1.jpg)
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tat2dphreak
post Mar 15 2010, 09:37 AM
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yea, that's different than mine (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

on this page, for example:
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1254

you can see that the carb has a plate on the front AND back... one with a spring, one with just the throttle "ear"...

my old-ass carbs do not have the rear piece, or have the spring on the front. the back is just a plain piece, no movement or screws.

I'm really thinking this is going to end with a new set of carbs, but if these can be re-freshed for less than the $500 for a new set...
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VaccaRabite
post Mar 15 2010, 10:06 AM
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Wayne, I think I have the same carbs that you do, and have the same problem. The 44s are SUCH better carbs, it seems. But I am reluctant to pull the shaft, as I have heard horror stories about killing the shaft during removal of the roll pin.

Zach
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ME733
post Mar 15 2010, 10:12 AM
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............Wayne.... are you trying to say that your carburators...are so OLD...that one or both shaft bushings are/were installed from the INSIDE of the bore, and therefore the shaft ...(and of course the butterflys) must be removed to replace them????.......Murray
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tat2dphreak
post Mar 15 2010, 10:23 AM
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from my understanding, yes. I think... what I am really pointing out is how the new carbs have a way to remove the bushings on each end, as shown in the photo.

supposedly in the mid-80s weber design changed slightly...

using this picture as an example:

Attached Image

mine only has one side, the other side is flat. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Zach, I'm not sure I need 44s, but if I have to buy new carbs, it will definitely be a choice, since they are roughly the same $
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Van
post Mar 15 2010, 10:28 AM
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So, is there anything preventing you from removing the butterflies and pulling the shaft out?

Maybe you don't have bearing...
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ME733
post Mar 15 2010, 10:31 AM
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..........Do you have a little mechanical aptitude, ?...can YOU get the carbs off?/and on...the solution is not cost effective If your mechanic does the work...(at EST 60.00 hr+)....
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tat2dphreak
post Mar 15 2010, 10:33 AM
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QUOTE
Maybe you don't have bearing...

maybe I don't?! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) if there's nothing to replace, then that would be my dilemma, probably (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) nothing to fix.

I just can't believe a carburetor would be built that needed to be thrown away instead of rebuilt.
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tat2dphreak
post Mar 15 2010, 10:37 AM
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QUOTE(ME733 @ Mar 15 2010, 11:31 AM) *

..........Do you have a little mechanical aptitude, ?...can YOU get the carbs off?/and on...the solution is not cost effective If your mechanic does the work...(at EST 60.00 hr+)....


yes, I can get the carbs off... i've done 90% of the work on my car, but I have used Wes for things I wanted to make sure got done right... he rebuilt the engine, but even said then the carbs weren't "right" he remember when they changed over to the new style, allowing the new bushings to be re-pressed and revamping the carbs.

if it will cost $500 to send them off, then of course new carbs are more cost effective. but if both can be done for 300 then it is a call leaning more to repair instead of replace.
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ME733
post Mar 15 2010, 10:50 AM
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.........It is entirely possable that the "butterflys" are just bent a little....due to years of not only use but -backfiring thru the carbs....., and the IDLE air bypass screws (the tips) are bent/blunted ....and maybe the idle screws are too....Is it time to rebuild the carbs anyway?....are they grubby, dirty?......?....could YOU rebuild them?....(take them apart and reassemble after cleaning)...?.........
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rhodyguy
post Mar 15 2010, 11:09 AM
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wayne, contact the folks at Air Cooled Enterprises (ACE) 801-943-1234 and see what they suggest. a set of carbs can be rebuilt (+jetted to spec with the info), setup and hot tested for far less than what a set of new carbs will run. i was very pleased with the reworking of my 44s.

k
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tat2dphreak
post Mar 15 2010, 11:38 AM
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QUOTE(ME733 @ Mar 15 2010, 11:50 AM) *

.........It is entirely possable that the "butterflys" are just bent a little....due to years of not only use but -backfiring thru the carbs....., and the IDLE air bypass screws (the tips) are bent/blunted ....and maybe the idle screws are too....Is it time to rebuild the carbs anyway?....are they grubby, dirty?......?....could YOU rebuild them?....(take them apart and reassemble after cleaning)...?.........


they were just rebuilt, nd I rebuilt them once before, the idle screw is fine(new) it's all in the butterfly/throttle shaft...

basically, there is "play" in the butterfly. they can open a little without the throttle stop coming off of the idle screw. the vacuum from the engine is basically pulling the throttle open a little bit without even putting pressure on the springs


I'll call ACE! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) I knew there was someplace that rebuilt -6 carbs that I couldn't remember, hopefully they can fix these (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

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tat2dphreak
post Mar 15 2010, 02:07 PM
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found a pic of the carb, specifially the back that I'm talking about...

Attached Image

it's different than the others I've seen, but maybe ACE can fix them


on a side note... SirAndy, why can't we link photos from our own blog, without having to d/l and resize them again?
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Van
post Mar 15 2010, 02:18 PM
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Um... have you taken off that nut and looked behind that round washer? You'll find the shaft bearing there.
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ME733
post Mar 15 2010, 02:33 PM
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.........YEP.........take off the nutand washer......and there she-be....AND It looks like you have an adjustable acc.pump .....the thing between both bores, has a rod with a spring behind it, attached to the cover in the middle of carb....this means ....YOU DO NOT HAVE the oldest design weber., and yours should be able to repaired easily.....I too understand ACE...does quality work, and has parts.
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tat2dphreak
post Mar 15 2010, 02:35 PM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

I will take it off one side when I get home, and report my findings... does it take a special shop/tool to replace these? I was told these were
pre-bearings... on the front there is not the springed piece as shown on the other carb... it's basically the same except it has a throttle stop, idle screw and throttle ear.

should these be repairable by moi? or just send them to Ace?
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ME733
post Mar 15 2010, 02:41 PM
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...........well , you were told wrong.....Now arn't you glad there is a 914 (world) site to go to for information......for you ,as they say, ACE is the place...........Murray
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tat2dphreak
post Mar 15 2010, 03:06 PM
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ok, well, here's the deal, ACE may not be cost effective in this scenario, but maybe I'll send them in for the final estimate, by the approximation given, it would be about $50-70 cheaper per carb than Empi HPMX carbs.. if that estimate is accurate, perhaps new carbs or good-used ones are in order... but that price was for EVERYTHING they do, they do NOT do bushings, bearings only.... I'll inspect the bearings and post pics. if it's the bushings, then new carbs are the only solution.
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Van
post Mar 15 2010, 03:31 PM
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I recently changed my bearings... They were only about $5 each. I did, however, need to remove the butterflies and acc. pump pin so I could drive the shafts out (to push the bearings out of their bores).

If you work fast, like I do, you can rebuild them in about 8 minutes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFywh5aC52A
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