ot: BIG UPS PROBLEM!!, need (legal?) advice badly- Options

[914ghost]

Okay-
Sold a set of 17" Porsche Cup wheels for a friend of mine. Just trying to be nice.
The price was $600 Delivered.
I wrapped the wheels in corrugated cardboard/tape thoroughly, then wrapped each pair of wheels together with more cardboard/tape.
Used 1600 Inches of tape (2 brand new rolls) total on the packing- 800' for each pair.
The wheels travelled from Washington to San Diego and were DEMOLISHED in transit.
One wheel never even showed up- the box was destroyed there were just the remains of the packing. The wheels that made it are scratched badly.
1st BIG problem:
I used the website and entered the info for the 1st box insured for $400, then hit "duplicate package" which duplicated all but the insurance info- so they say the 2nd box is not insured.
2nd BIG problem: They called me and said cardboard DOES NOT qualify as a packing item- therefore my claim is DENIED.

I said kindly, NO IT IS NOT- YOU WILL PAY ME. And explained the situation calmly to teh person on the phone- she replied they would get back to me and I haven't heard from them.

I feel fairly powerless.
Any advice? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
-Bob O

[Malmz]

Each box is automatically insured for $100 with UPS, so you should have insurance for $400 + $100 or $500. As for inadequate packing claims by UPS, you are going to have to keep asking for a supervisor...

sm

(had to edit this after originally posting it... I didn't read it was two boxes originally...)

[Jake Raby]

Same shit happened to me with a fully built 901 tranny...

I had an account with them, and did not pay them for 6 months! I got the tanb upto the 2,000 bucks that the tranny was insured for and just waited. When they called I said "When yoyu settle my claim, I'll pay you"

In the mean time I got a Fed Ex account and never looked back.

They finally paid me, and I finally paid them about a year ago. I kept the account open and they sent me a statement saying owed them 50 bucks for having a dormant account.

I WILL NEVER USE UPS AGAIN FOR ANYTHING!

[SirAndy]

They called me and said cardboard DOES NOT qualify as a packing item- therefore my claim is DENIED.

i'm afraid they are right.

went through the same before. i had someone send me a 20" monitor via ups. he put it in a cardboard box that was never meant to handle a monitor.
with no fricking additional padding except a few balls of newspaper.

needless to say, the monitor didn't make it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

ups denied any claims as the goods were not packaged correctly. and they won.

just taping up with cardboard doesn't cut it. have you ever watched those guys unload a UPS airplane?
if you send something sensitive, wrap it in 10 layers of bubble wrap or styrofoam (sp?) ...

good luck, you'll need it,
Andy

[Part Pricer]

I hate to say this but I think you're screwed.

UPS is right, cardboard by itself is not an adequate packing material. However, a cardboard box or shipping container that is properly assembled has some structural integrity. Cardboard taped around a wheel does not.

It's going to be a long, hard battle with UPS. Plan to spend a lot of time on the phone. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/phone.gif)

[tod914]

I know a few people that work for UPS. Don't put fragile or handle with care on your package! It will get extra special treatment.

[914ghost]

Yeah,
I ran a shipping warehouse for a friend of mine for 4 years and we shipped stuff all over the world.
UPS was constanlty screwing up and sending this squeeking little bitch over with muffins to try and make up for it.
They'd lose a box or two (value $400 maybe- but retail value of $1600) and send this "account representitive" out with F*@king muffins and a smile to ease our pain.
He eventually threw her out and switched to FedEx.
Made her cry I think!! Oh...Funny... . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
IF they honour the claim as it supposedly states I (or my friend who actually owns the wheels) will still be out $250 roughly.
I just dont see how UPS can accept your money, take your box, then say- On second thought, we screwed your stuff up and it wasn't packed well enough after all and its YOUR FAULT!!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)
I'll eat the cost of the scrathces and whatnot, but how is it not packed well enough if one box makes it intact? The packing was identical.

[campbellcj]

WTF are you supposed to use for packaging other than cardboard?!?!?!?!?

Are you supposed to have a custom wood crate built for every UPS shipment, and then shrink wrap to a pallet? Hmmmm....

[Part Pricer]

WTF are you supposed to use for packaging other than cardboard?!?!?!?!?

Are you supposed to have a custom wood crate built for every UPS shipment, and then shrink wrap to a pallet? Hmmmm....

I've shipped wheels all over the country. I've never had a problem since they were packed correctly. The next town over from me is a hotbed of restoration shops, hot rod fabricators and race car builders. Whenever I need to ship wheels, I go over to one of the shops and ask for the cardboard containers that they receive new wheels in. As I stated above, a cardboard container has structural integrity. Cardboard does not.

[campbellcj]

That's why I was perplexed...I have shipped & received multiple sets of wheels in the last year or two. All were in correctly sized, double wall cardboard boxes, packed snugly (no sigificant "wiggle" room) with bubble wrap and/or popcorn. Zero probs.

[Mueller]

hmmmm, I'm curious if this thread will be responded to by a certain member who is a very high level manager for UPS (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
(and a customer of mine, LOL)

sorry, no names, I'll let him chime in (or not) .........

I too think you are SOL....I am wondering if Tire Rack has many claims against UPS or FedEx since they package the mounted rim/tire combos just like that......a piece of cardboard covering the rims (both sides).

My rim/tire combo arrived undamaged, what I didn't like was that I stated (and it was on the label) "DO NOT LEAVE IF NO ONE HOME"

the driver didn't see it or didn't care and left $1000.00+ worth of rims and tires on my doorstep...I live in a decent area, but kids still steal crap no matter where you live...........

[jonwatts]

I ordered rims and tires from TireRack for my last car. They stack the wheels and use circular cardboard cutouts to protect the top and bottom rim faces. They strap the whole thing together with one of those shipping strap kits and send it off. The tires protect everything else. It seemed to work fine even though they used UPS.

Rims alone I'd be scared to ship unless I had an extra $150 in the deal to pay for materials.

[Jenny]

Yup. UPS leaves my shit on the doorstep as well. My beef is... if you're not getting a signature, at least make sure you're leaving the package on the RIGHT DOORSTEP. I'm constantly getting packages delivered to me from various neighbors when they come home to one of my packages on their porch. NICE. <_<

Jen

[Steve Thacker]

I'm highly trained in the art of improvised munitions,.. courtesy of Uncle Sam and you great tax payers. Would you like to send UPS a care package with love from campbellcj? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Only when you want to send the very best with love...see me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Hmmm that gives me a idea,..I wonder if the government would get pissed if I targeted terrorists with some of their tricks? LMAO

[Rusty]

UPS will do or say anything to weasel out of a claim. Zois sold me a set of wheels & tires a year ago, and they arrived chipped and scratched. I saw before pictures of them, they were cool.

The wheel/tire combos were packaged in pairs, finished sides to the inside. They had heavy pressboard circles covering the wheels, and many layers of strong shrinkwrap holding them together. The packages had been broken open, fiberboard (not cardboard) circles that protected the wheels flopping around. The packages of lugnuts.. 15 out of 20 were missing.

Save all your packaging material, and take lots of pictures NOW. When they come to inspect the package, they'll want to take it all. I told them NO. They could take all the pictures they liked, but they needed to leave the stuff at my house. I wasn't going to let them screw up the wheels again.

It will be a huge hassle, and I think they count on people getting caught in the robo-phone, ending up on perpetual hold, and finally so frustrated they just give up. Call them every day. You'll talk to people who will swear they'll call you back, but they won't. Write everyone's name down, and then talk to their supervisors. I got a local number to the UPS distribution center, and started calling them, too. Zois can confirm... there were more than a hundred emails. Make it painful for them, and let them know you won't let it go.

I agree... they shouldn't accept a package if they KNOW the packaging is insufficient by "their standards".

Oh, btw... their settlement people aren't part of the UPS company. They're part of some insurance company or subcontractor, I believe. Once you get through to them, they're nice to work with.

It took MONTHS to make it right. Oh, and they'll pay the shipper, not the receiver. You need to work it out with the shipper.

-Rusty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

P.S. Next set of wheels go in a box by Greyhound.

[Toast]

Bob,
Its going to be a tough battle that does not look promising. But dont wait for them to call you because they wont. MaKE multiple calls to them so they keep you fresh in mind. But be curtious, yet firm.

I have had the similar problem on 3 occasions. One recetnly with a transmission that was crated and was dropped on the nose cone. In all three instances, they claimed "faulty packaging". I ship through UPS by my work almost everyday. I know how picky they are about how their view of packaging should be. I won the last case with the transmission, but lost the other two. One one of the ones I lost was packages by UPS themselves! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Your odds dont look very good. Just wrapping them in cardboard is not real safe. I agree with campbellcj; everything should be crated and shrink wrapped. <_< I leave about 4" of padding all around the item im sending, in a cardboard box. If its fragil, I wrap it in even more padding.

Good luck Bob. UPS is going to try real hard to get out of paying you. Just be persistant.

[Toast]

Jenny,
I have had that same problem with wrong address packages being dropped off at my door. I usually just deliver them myself. One time I had one delivered that was almost 3 miles away! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[vortrex]

hate to say it, but you are out of luck.

I bought a piece of vintage wooden furniture and had it UPS shipped to me. it was packed very well, with cardboard outer and then a wooden inner liner. it obviously fell off the truck (it was heavy) as one end was totally smashed in. the UPS claims person came to the house, took pics, and then said it was not covered because of the packing. I think unless UPS packs it their insurance will not cover. big scam if you ask me.

[STL914]

I had a similar UPS story several years ago. I bought a Saratoga top and a regular targa top from a guy in CA. Even before I paid for them, he shipped them through a local
Mail Box type store, but with out insurance.

Came home rom work and excitedly open the carton to find
the Saratoga had a shattered front corner. The latch actually broke off the ceramic mounting block and scratched the inside of the top as it fell in the carton. Totally pissed me off.

I called UPS and was told that the selled had to file a claim.
He did just that and I waited for UPS to settle the claim. I received a call from UPS rep from IL. who told me that UPS will come and ask for the package, and she also told me that I should refuse, as I'd never see the tops again. UPS sends all of the damaged items to a wharehouse in Florida. UPS made three attempts to pick up the tops, and each time I refused.

About six months later, UPS finally settled. Stroh, the fellow from CA. was paid $250, actually made $150 as he sold both tops to me for $50 each. And I now had both tops for free. I was able to have the Saratoga top repaired by an artist friend of mine. Looked pretty good too. I later sold it for a clean profit of $400.

I've never used UPS since.

[Malmz]

I do have to say I shipped a 914 trans to Florida in a cardboard box with a bunch of packaging material via UPS and it looks like they end-dropped it and one of the ears broke off. They inspected it and they paid the claim.

Probably really depends on your inspector too.

sm