Okay-
Sold a set of 17" Porsche Cup wheels for a friend of mine. Just trying to be nice.
The price was $600 Delivered.
I wrapped the wheels in corrugated cardboard/tape thoroughly, then wrapped each pair of wheels together with more cardboard/tape.
Used 1600 Inches of tape (2 brand new rolls) total on the packing- 800' for each pair.
The wheels travelled from Washington to San Diego and were DEMOLISHED in transit.
One wheel never even showed up- the box was destroyed there were just the remains of the packing. The wheels that made it are scratched badly.
1st BIG problem:
I used the website and entered the info for the 1st box insured for $400, then hit "duplicate package" which duplicated all but the insurance info- so they say the 2nd box is not insured.
2nd BIG problem: They called me and said cardboard DOES NOT qualify as a packing item- therefore my claim is DENIED.

I said kindly, NO IT IS NOT- YOU WILL PAY ME. And explained the situation calmly to teh person on the phone- she replied they would get back to me and I haven't heard from them.

I feel fairly powerless.
Any advice?
-Bob O

Each box is automatically insured for $100 with UPS, so you should have insurance for $400 + $100 or $500. As for inadequate packing claims by UPS, you are going to have to keep asking for a supervisor...

sm

(had to edit this after originally posting it... I didn't read it was two boxes originally...)

Same shit happened to me with a fully built 901 tranny...

I had an account with them, and did not pay them for 6 months! I got the tanb upto the 2,000 bucks that the tranny was insured for and just waited. When they called I said "When yoyu settle my claim, I'll pay you"

In the mean time I got a Fed Ex account and never looked back.

They finally paid me, and I finally paid them about a year ago. I kept the account open and they sent me a statement saying owed them 50 bucks for having a dormant account.

I WILL NEVER USE UPS AGAIN FOR ANYTHING!

i'm afraid they are right.

went through the same before. i had someone send me a 20" monitor via ups. he put it in a cardboard box that was never meant to handle a monitor.
with no fricking additional padding except a few balls of newspaper.

needless to say, the monitor didn't make it.

ups denied any claims as the goods were not packaged correctly. and they won.

just taping up with cardboard doesn't cut it. have you ever watched those guys unload a UPS airplane?
if you send something sensitive, wrap it in 10 layers of bubble wrap or styrofoam (sp?) ...

good luck, you'll need it,
Andy

I hate to say this but I think you're screwed.

UPS is right, cardboard by itself is not an adequate packing material. However, a cardboard box or shipping container that is properly assembled has some structural integrity. Cardboard taped around a wheel does not.

It's going to be a long, hard battle with UPS. Plan to spend a lot of time on the phone.

I know a few people that work for UPS. Don't put fragile or handle with care on your package! It will get extra special treatment.

Yeah,
I ran a shipping warehouse for a friend of mine for 4 years and we shipped stuff all over the world.
UPS was constanlty screwing up and sending this squeeking little bitch over with muffins to try and make up for it.
They'd lose a box or two (value $400 maybe- but retail value of $1600) and send this "account representitive" out with F*@king muffins and a smile to ease our pain.
He eventually threw her out and switched to FedEx.
Made her cry I think!! Oh...Funny... .
IF they honour the claim as it supposedly states I (or my friend who actually owns the wheels) will still be out $250 roughly.
I just dont see how UPS can accept your money, take your box, then say- On second thought, we screwed your stuff up and it wasn't packed well enough after all and its YOUR FAULT!!

I'll eat the cost of the scrathces and whatnot, but how is it not packed well enough if one box makes it intact? The packing was identical.

WTF are you supposed to use for packaging other than cardboard?!?!?!?!?

Are you supposed to have a custom wood crate built for every UPS shipment, and then shrink wrap to a pallet? Hmmmm....

I've shipped wheels all over the country. I've never had a problem since they were packed correctly. The next town over from me is a hotbed of restoration shops, hot rod fabricators and race car builders. Whenever I need to ship wheels, I go over to one of the shops and ask for the cardboard containers that they receive new wheels in. As I stated above, a cardboard container has structural integrity. Cardboard does not.

That's why I was perplexed...I have shipped & received multiple sets of wheels in the last year or two. All were in correctly sized, double wall cardboard boxes, packed snugly (no sigificant "wiggle" room) with bubble wrap and/or popcorn. Zero probs.

hmmmm, I'm curious if this thread will be responded to by a certain member who is a very high level manager for UPS
(and a customer of mine, LOL)

sorry, no names, I'll let him chime in (or not) .........

I too think you are SOL....I am wondering if Tire Rack has many claims against UPS or FedEx since they package the mounted rim/tire combos just like that......a piece of cardboard covering the rims (both sides).

My rim/tire combo arrived undamaged, what I didn't like was that I stated (and it was on the label) "DO NOT LEAVE IF NO ONE HOME"

the driver didn't see it or didn't care and left $1000.00+ worth of rims and tires on my doorstep...I live in a decent area, but kids still steal crap no matter where you live...........

I ordered rims and tires from TireRack for my last car. They stack the wheels and use circular cardboard cutouts to protect the top and bottom rim faces. They strap the whole thing together with one of those shipping strap kits and send it off. The tires protect everything else. It seemed to work fine even though they used UPS.

Rims alone I'd be scared to ship unless I had an extra $150 in the deal to pay for materials.

Yup. UPS leaves my shit on the doorstep as well. My beef is... if you're not getting a signature, at least make sure you're leaving the package on the RIGHT DOORSTEP. I'm constantly getting packages delivered to me from various neighbors when they come home to one of my packages on their porch. NICE. <_<

Jen

I'm highly trained in the art of improvised munitions,.. courtesy of Uncle Sam and you great tax payers. Would you like to send UPS a care package with love from campbellcj?

Only when you want to send the very best with love...see me

Hmmm that gives me a idea,..I wonder if the government would get pissed if I targeted terrorists with some of their tricks? LMAO

UPS will do or say anything to weasel out of a claim. Zois sold me a set of wheels & tires a year ago, and they arrived chipped and scratched. I saw before pictures of them, they were cool.

The wheel/tire combos were packaged in pairs, finished sides to the inside. They had heavy pressboard circles covering the wheels, and many layers of strong shrinkwrap holding them together. The packages had been broken open, fiberboard (not cardboard) circles that protected the wheels flopping around. The packages of lugnuts.. 15 out of 20 were missing.

Save all your packaging material, and take lots of pictures NOW. When they come to inspect the package, they'll want to take it all. I told them NO. They could take all the pictures they liked, but they needed to leave the stuff at my house. I wasn't going to let them screw up the wheels again.

It will be a huge hassle, and I think they count on people getting caught in the robo-phone, ending up on perpetual hold, and finally so frustrated they just give up. Call them every day. You'll talk to people who will swear they'll call you back, but they won't. Write everyone's name down, and then talk to their supervisors. I got a local number to the UPS distribution center, and started calling them, too. Zois can confirm... there were more than a hundred emails. Make it painful for them, and let them know you won't let it go.

I agree... they shouldn't accept a package if they KNOW the packaging is insufficient by "their standards".

Oh, btw... their settlement people aren't part of the UPS company. They're part of some insurance company or subcontractor, I believe. Once you get through to them, they're nice to work with.

It took MONTHS to make it right. Oh, and they'll pay the shipper, not the receiver. You need to work it out with the shipper.

-Rusty

P.S. Next set of wheels go in a box by Greyhound.

Bob,
Its going to be a tough battle that does not look promising. But dont wait for them to call you because they wont. MaKE multiple calls to them so they keep you fresh in mind. But be curtious, yet firm.

I have had the similar problem on 3 occasions. One recetnly with a transmission that was crated and was dropped on the nose cone. In all three instances, they claimed "faulty packaging". I ship through UPS by my work almost everyday. I know how picky they are about how their view of packaging should be. I won the last case with the transmission, but lost the other two. One one of the ones I lost was packages by UPS themselves!

Your odds dont look very good. Just wrapping them in cardboard is not real safe. I agree with campbellcj; everything should be crated and shrink wrapped. <_< I leave about 4" of padding all around the item im sending, in a cardboard box. If its fragil, I wrap it in even more padding.

Good luck Bob. UPS is going to try real hard to get out of paying you. Just be persistant.

Jenny,
I have had that same problem with wrong address packages being dropped off at my door. I usually just deliver them myself. One time I had one delivered that was almost 3 miles away!

hate to say it, but you are out of luck.

I bought a piece of vintage wooden furniture and had it UPS shipped to me. it was packed very well, with cardboard outer and then a wooden inner liner. it obviously fell off the truck (it was heavy) as one end was totally smashed in. the UPS claims person came to the house, took pics, and then said it was not covered because of the packing. I think unless UPS packs it their insurance will not cover. big scam if you ask me.

I had a similar UPS story several years ago. I bought a Saratoga top and a regular targa top from a guy in CA. Even before I paid for them, he shipped them through a local
Mail Box type store, but with out insurance.

Came home rom work and excitedly open the carton to find
the Saratoga had a shattered front corner. The latch actually broke off the ceramic mounting block and scratched the inside of the top as it fell in the carton. Totally pissed me off.

I called UPS and was told that the selled had to file a claim.
He did just that and I waited for UPS to settle the claim. I received a call from UPS rep from IL. who told me that UPS will come and ask for the package, and she also told me that I should refuse, as I'd never see the tops again. UPS sends all of the damaged items to a wharehouse in Florida. UPS made three attempts to pick up the tops, and each time I refused.

About six months later, UPS finally settled. Stroh, the fellow from CA. was paid $250, actually made $150 as he sold both tops to me for $50 each. And I now had both tops for free. I was able to have the Saratoga top repaired by an artist friend of mine. Looked pretty good too. I later sold it for a clean profit of $400.

I've never used UPS since.

I do have to say I shipped a 914 trans to Florida in a cardboard box with a bunch of packaging material via UPS and it looks like they end-dropped it and one of the ears broke off. They inspected it and they paid the claim.

Probably really depends on your inspector too.

sm

i have to say, since UPS and FEDEX came about, the regular post office didnt do much business in the way of packages, however since they have been losing a lot of money because of email, they have really tried to make up the difference in packages. i recently sent a 15" subwoofer from CA to IL, and the post office not only came in about $14 cheaper, but the the guy emailed me and said the package came without even the slighest dent in it, which made me happy. true they are a bit slower, but i'd rather have that than to deal with insurance claims.

So..... whenever given the option of insurance, I'm still not sure which way to go. Seems like insurance is pretty pointless. When paying for insurance, I expect it to cover these issues. But it's looking like chances of your ass actually being covered is 50/50 at best, PLUS lots of headache and phone time.

Jen

Up front I'm just going to come right out and say I am not trying to be a dick and piss any of you off. That said, here's my $0.02.

UPS has very clear and detailed instructions for preparing your package for shipment.
UPS has very clear and detailed insurance policy.

If you people will read and follow the instructions you won't have problems with damaged packages, and if you do your claims will be settled without much difficulty. Every single example given in this thread of damaged shipments describe packaging that doesn't even come close to the guidelines provided by UPS. That makes the damage the fault of the shipper. Period. Now if you do it right and follow all the guidelines then you've got a legitimate gripe. This was not the case here.

You guys have to remember, your package will travel cross-country in a semi-trailer with packages stacked 10 feet high. Those packages can weigh as much as 175lb. each. Somebody's package is going to be on the bottom and that's just the way it is. Deal with it by packing your shipment as if it's going to be at the bottom of a 10ft pile of 175lb packages going down a rough road in a trailer bouncing over frost-heaves and chuck-holes. What, you expect them to cary your package on a velvet pillow?

Regarding the comment about not marking a package "fragile" or "handle with care" because they will be intentionally abused - that's total bullsh*t. You try something like that at UPS and you'll be out of a job on the spot. I worked for them, and they don't put up with misshandling.

Bottom line is follow the guidelines and you'll seldom have a problem. If you do, you can show that you followed the guidelines and your claim will be settled with much less trouble. I would guess that 99% of the claim damage I saw was from packaging that clearly didn't meet the guidelines. My sympathy is saved for the 1% that did what they were supose to. The other 99% are just pushing up the cost for everybody else.

-Ben M. (worked for UPS through college)

#1 Reason USPS sucks around here for packages is that you have to take it to the store, stand in line for a minimum 1/2 hour if the package is over 1 lb.

They do have a new online postage thing where you are supposed to be able to just drop it at the counter, but I haven't tried that one yet.

Still wondering what crack at USPS my 60 lb $500 Range Rover power steeeing box fell into... or how long it sat in that crack until that hard to find, expensive part was thrown in a dumpster somewhere because nobody at one of their lost package auctions could figure out what it was...

sm

Sounds like everybody has a UPS horror story. I don't have any, but a girl I work with gets a lot of computer stuff sent through UPS. A lot of times, if she isn't home, the UPS guy decides to hide the packages, then stick a note on the door, saying where they are. On a few occasions, the note has blown off, so a few days later when she is out in the yard she finds a box full of computer parts stuck in the bush or behind the garage.

For shorter distances, the bus is the way to go. I shipped some wheels to my buddy in Calgary. I just stuck them in some garbage bags, and off they went. Made it there the next day, and no scratches, dents or problems of any kind.

I'm not sure about UPS, but a friend of mine works for Canada Postal Sevices, and he said that things marked Fragile recieve "special" treatment quite often. Smashy Smashy!

I was told by a UPS driver that normal packages get thrown into the truck overhand and that things marked "fragile" get tossed in underhand.

Andrew

Like Air Six, I to have spent Holiday periods working for UPS. You should see the container trucks when they are loaded. 10 feet tall, packed air tight with packages usually the smallest on the bottom

"Fragile" doesn't mean a hill o' beans to the people scrambling to load the trucks. Even means less to the drivers doing drive-by deliveries

I haven't had the misfortune of any broken deliveries, I by lots of Italian Wine straight from the winaries in Tuscany, due to the fact of packaging properly. Hard to shot put a hundred pound crate of wine, believe me they try

So, that's my 2 cents. Sorry for your wheels though

Good luck too!
Nate

THAT is a great point, it seems like IF the pick-up guy actually picks up your item, then ups HAS entered into an agreement with the shipper:

"we'll come pick your item up and deliver it to where you want it delivered, for a pre-determined price, that we choose, and that you agreed on".

Seems like if they pick it up, it's then THEIR responsibility, ain't it?

There is NO excuse!

I have had Fed Ex for almost two years now. They are faster, have not lost a single package, have not damaged a single package and get from coast to coast atleast one day faster !!

And They ARE cheaper! My shipping bill went down 300 bucks a month when made the move!

Sorry if this upsets anyone who works for UPS, But I hate them. Up here they think they are the govenment and can do whatever they want. I refuse to deal with any company that ships with them. First question I ask is how will you ship me my order. They do seem better in the USA to deal with.

They left $4K worth of bows sitting on my front step. Their answer was we don't require a signature for shipments. I was out of town and my dad came by to check the house or they would have been gone and I would have been out the $$

They also left $2K worth of clothing samples (driver did put those in my back yard). but I didn't find out about them till 4 days later. After 4 days of rain. Luckly the company that sent them had wraped the clothes in plastic bags.


Keep after them and if no results file in small claim's court.....

Okay-
So I have two packages each wrapped cardboard and secured with 800 inches of packing tape.
1 package makes it intact thus I would consider the packing sufficient to at least make the journey- since both were packed indentical then they both must have been packed sufficiently at least to get the contents top the destination.
The second box though gets torn in half- and NOBODY FUCKING NOTICES? ahem* sorry.
Did it just friggen explode when noone was looking?
I'm sorry, I'll gladly admit its possible there could be some scuffing or a ding or two from the LACK of cushion- I'd eat that cost and send the buyer some money or a refund- but I will not allow them to arbitrarily tell me AFTER the fact that the packing is good enough for them to accept into transit and they'll take my insurance money but IF something happens they'll judge the packing different? And it wasn't good enough after all?
Somebody needs to find and QUOTE UPS guidelines where it says ONLY items packaged by and approved for transit by UPS will be insured.
I'll keep you posted.
-Bob O

p.s. I recieved a set of Fuchs from a guy in Indiana a month or two ago, they had ONE thin piece of cardboard between a pair of wheels (got 5 wheels) and were taped together. The 5th wheel had cardboard over the top.
The showed up here in PERFECT condition all at the same time.
Not a scratch.

so that means the half assed driver should inspect it.... If it passes his check, then it makes the truck and get insured.

Still their fault.

They broke the tail mount clean off of my 901, and it was shipped in a wooden crate, covered in cardboard... How much better does it get??

I think I could hit the mount with an 8 pound sledge and it would take a few licks to snap it!

I used to build cheap computers for family members and then ship them UPS/USPS/FEDEX, I'd have them insured and everything and I would send them in appropriate containers.

UPS was by far the worst in package damage, expense, difficulty in dealing and what have you.

The only company that I make an exception to doing business with that uses UPS is Amazon and that I am still not comfortable with. Recently they have started shipping with USPS and I couldn't be happier - it takes longer but it is cheaper and I feel more comfortable.

My admin assitance used to call and complain weekly about how our packages were delivered becuase she woudl see a jim carey style performance everytime UPS would make a deliver. She'd seen packages dropped so many times it was well passed funny.

In my experience, UPS has not been worth the expense. I have a FEDEX account - they are not perfect but they are leaps and bounds better to deal with than UPS.

My experience and opinion. Brown is shit.

I had one problem with UPS, and that was when I shipped some rear lenses. I was sure they where packaged good, THey had no room, and I shook them pretty good to check to make sure it was going to be right. I packed it pretty tight, and when the person recieved it, it was shattered in pieces. They shouldnt have moved, if it was dropped from 30 ft!

Oh well. Insurance covered it, and everyone was happy.

Andrew (waiting on some koni's coming in through UPS)

Hi,
I have been a pilot for the freight nazis for over 16 years(747). I wish I had some advice for you all but I don't know much about that end of the buisness. Most air packages seem to be handled pretty well. ( No, I don't suggest you send your wheels next day air!) It's interesting that they won't give emloyees a discount, yet I used to be able to go to FEDEX with my airline ID and get a discount there!! Years ago they used to send employees frozen turkeys for Thanksgiving. When they delivered mine to the house, the driver put it around the side of the house where we rarely go. We found it about three days after it was delivered. The raccoons in the neighberhood had a great Thanksgiving.

2 years, 1 month and 10 days till retirement. (Uhuh, but who's counting?)
Cheers, Elliot

Guys do not ship heavy, awkward, and valuble items UPS. Get a big pallet and strap that shit down and cover with card board or another wooden container. I sent a set of wheels to Florida and it was cheaper than UPS, easier than USPS and the parts arrive quickly and in perfect condition. UPS is for little boxes and smaller items that can be UPS proofed in a solid package. USPS sucks ass for packages they can't seem to ever get my packages anywhere on time. They are great for letters and such but they don't do package tracking and they still act like the governent when trying to find lost items.

Here is one for ya!

a few minutes ago I went to grab some chow..... Go to the end of the driveway and see a white envelope laying in the ditch (it just rained last night) next to my mail box. I got out, picked it up and it was a check for 3,000.00 that was delivered by airborne express.

I guess the lazy bastards stuck it under the flag of the mailbox and the wind blew it off and into the ditch! I was here all day and my driveway is 100 yards long...

AND the sender checked that it was suppose to be signed for!!!

It never ends.

Yes, UPS can be pretty bad at times but most of the time the items do get there. Try to send something to Suriname! Every package is opened by the handlers and if its worth anything stolen! Even when you fly there you must use a hard suitcase with locks because everything else is opened or slashed open.

Atleast here the stuff does get there most of the time.

When we go to Suriname we carry backpacks and carry on's with VCRs, cameras and other stuff for friends.

Life is tough in the US, oh yeah.

Geoff

UPS just delivered a case of Belgian beer (gift) to my doorstep tonight, and I'm happy to report, no damage


Seriously, even though a lot of the stuff I buy is shipped via UPS, sometimes by choice and often not, virtually all of my business and personal shipping is by USPS and FedEx. I must say that after many years of successful experiences with FedEx, they f'd up numerous times last year too. Mostly late shipments, not damage, but still f'up's nonetheless when it absolutely has to be there overnight...and then it doesn't get there.

Wow...this is a scary thread.

I used USPS to ship a Notebook to a US Army Base(?) in Korea via their postal system to my cousin. It never arrived. It was insured, they took 8 months to get me a check, they estimated 8-10months I think.

My friend gets stuff from Ebay Vendors all the time, UPS usually, he's been pretty happy.

Friend sent some glass statues home from Hawaii to CA, USPS and they arrived fine...took a bit longer than if he had shipped it UPS or FedEX.


Sang