SOT: 944/968 advice, a friend has the fever :) Options

[tat2dphreak]

ok, so after a few 914 rides a close friend has the bug. he really likes 968 and 944(951) for his budget (under 10k)

I've told him to do as much reading as possible, to study what to look for and ask about, is there anything that you guys can recommend?

reliability issues? major expenses to watch for?

[dem]

As the former keeper-of-the-944-faq, try here:

http://www.connact.com/~kgross/FAQ/944faq.html

Pretty much covers it.

Dennis
(ex-944S, ex-944 TurboS)

[tat2dphreak]

awesome! thanks!

I read the 94 buyers guide on pelican, but felt it was sort of "short and sweet" didn't really lay out the big "gotchas"

[jmill]

I don't know if he'll find a decent 951 for under 10k. Prices might have dropped. The last I looked a real nice one was closer to 15k. I had a mint 924S which is basically a lighter 944 N/A. He can get a 944 N/A all day long for under 10 or a 924S for under 5.

[jmill]

I read the 94 buyers guide on pelican, but felt it was sort of "short and sweet" didn't really lay out the big "gotchas"

The only Real gotcha is battery tray rust. They rot up and fall into the passengers footwell. Pull the battery and look at it. Leaves collect on the drivers side and rust that up too. Expect the sunroof and rear trunk electronics to have gremlins. There's tech articles out there on how to fix.

[Mikey914]

He should be able to find something in that range. The key is to try to find one that's not highly "modified". They can be made to put out quite a bit more power, but were most reliable the way they came from the factory.

[Andyrew]

I don't know if he'll find a decent 951 for under 10k. Prices might have dropped. The last I looked a real nice one was closer to 15k. I had a mint 924S which is basically a lighter 944 N/A. He can get a 944 N/A all day long for under 10 or a 924S for under 5.

He should EASILY be able to get a very nice and clean turbo for 10k. I see them ~8k around here. Perfect/show cars go for 15k... Nice drivers w/ a few tasteful mods go for 8-10k.

968's are a bit more unfortunately..

For 10k he should get a low mile, very nicely maintained, clean car.

[tat2dphreak]

there is a decent looking 968 on ebay for 8500... cabrio. the prices are fortunately coming down (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

he's not looking for a show car, he's looking for a driver (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[scotty b]

I don't know if he'll find a decent 951 for under 10k. Prices might have dropped. The last I looked a real nice one was closer to 15k. I had a mint 924S which is basically a lighter 944 N/A. He can get a 944 N/A all day long for under 10 or a 924S for under 5.

He should EASILY be able to get a very nice and clean turbo for 10k. I see them ~8k around here. Perfect/show cars go for 15k... Nice drivers w/ a few tasteful mods go for 8-10k.

968's are a bit more unfortunately..

For 10k he should get a low mile, very nicely maintained, clean car.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) My frind that had a mechanical shop has bought and sold 4 turbos in the last 8-12 months, all in the 8-12,000.00 range. All were VERY nice cars. Don't fear the cars, I know all to well how many people talk shit, and spew the info they have READ about them, BUT a 944 with proper maintenance is a great car. A turbo with proper maintenance is a AWESOME car. A turbo with proper maintenance and some upgrades is an INCREDIBLE car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) If he has reasonable intellect, and reasonable mechanical skills most anything can be done by the amatuer mech. The only real issue he might want to pay for is the timing belty job. DO NOT do that unless you have the proper tensioning gauge. DO NOT use the "cricket" It may work, but it is NOT going to be correct, and blowing an engine is not worth the risk. The tales of not needing the gauge for a post 87 car is a myth too. Those not knowing anything think the timing belt is the only thing you need the tensioner for. WRONG !! the balance shafts also need to be properly tensioned and they DO NOT have spring loaded tensioners. You need the gauge regardless if you plan to do your own belts. If he looks at a car without proof of mantenance by a REPUTABLE mechanic, tell him to pass, or plan on doing the water pump and belts IMMEDIATELY. A belt failure will cost the valve train and if very lucky will not hit the pistons. Last one I did for a customer had a 2500.00 bill. Wiped out all but 2 valves, didn't touch a piston. I flog mine everytime I drive it, but I also keep a close eye on the maintenance (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[Van]

Turbo's are higher maintenance than their S2 or 968 brethren... but they have more hidden "power potential". If you spend well, you can reliable get 300-350 HP at the wheels.

A nice plain-jane 944 is also a great way to get into Porsches. They're comfortable, handle superbly, and still feel kind of modern.

If he has a little more to spend, he could consider the 914's big brother - the Boxster.

[Van]

DO NOT do that unless you have the proper tensioning gauge. DO NOT use the "cricket" It may work, but it is NOT going to be correct, and blowing an engine is not worth the risk. The tales of not needing the gauge for a post 87 car is a myth too. Those not knowing anything think the timing belt is the only thing you need the tensioner for. WRONG !! the balance shafts also need to be properly tensioned and they DO NOT have spring loaded tensioners. You need the gauge regardless if you plan to do your own belts.

I respectfully disagree. I've been tensioning my own belts by feel for nearly 15 years, and never had a problem. That's like telling someone they can't synch carbs without a syncrometer... But it can be done very well by ear and a hose. It's just quicker with a sophisticated tool.

[Cap'n Krusty]

[quote name='Van' date='Apr 12 2010, 05:36 PM' post='1302348']
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(scotty b @ Apr 12 2010, 03:51 PM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
DO NOT do that unless you have the proper tensioning gauge. DO NOT use the "cricket" It may work, but it is NOT going to be correct, and blowing an engine is not worth the risk. The tales of not needing the gauge for a post 87 car is a myth too. Those not knowing anything think the timing belt is the only thing you need the tensioner for. WRONG !! the balance shafts also need to be properly tensioned and they DO NOT have spring loaded tensioners. You need the gauge regardless if you plan to do your own belts.
[/quote]

I respectfully disagree. I've been tensioning my own belts by feel for nearly 15 years, and never had a problem. That's like telling someone they can't synch carbs without a syncrometer... But it can be done very well by ear and a hose. It's just quicker with a sophisticated tool.
[/quote]
I would NEVER do a belt on a 944 without the gauge. Ever. You may be lucky, but anyone buying a 944/951/968 shouldn't count on luck as a factor in their decision to buy. These cars require a level of maintenance unlike any other street Porsche, and that should be factored into any decision. If the buyer isn't a DIY type, he should budget for a belt/pump job every 40K miles and a clutch every 100K. That's 1500 every couple of years, and 2000 every time it needs a clutch. Those are on top of service work. That said, they're great cars to drive.

As for the synchrometer, most carb experienced wrenches can do an adequate job without the tools, but why? Good enough usually isn't, IMO.

The Cap'n

[scotty b]

[quote name='Van' date='Apr 12 2010, 04:36 PM' post='1302348']
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(scotty b @ Apr 12 2010, 03:51 PM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
DO NOT do that unless you have the proper tensioning gauge. DO NOT use the "cricket" It may work, but it is NOT going to be correct, and blowing an engine is not worth the risk. The tales of not needing the gauge for a post 87 car is a myth too. Those not knowing anything think the timing belt is the only thing you need the tensioner for. WRONG !! the balance shafts also need to be properly tensioned and they DO NOT have spring loaded tensioners. You need the gauge regardless if you plan to do your own belts.
[/quote]

I respectfully disagree. I've been tensioning my own belts by feel for nearly 15 years, and never had a problem. That's like telling someone they can't synch carbs without a syncrometer... But it can be done very well by ear and a hose. It's just quicker with a sophisticated tool.
[/quote]


Sure, and I used to make rocker panels with a bench vise and a hammer, but I got a real brake and they look better, fit better, and take a lot less time. I have also flared brake lines with a hammer and a tapered punch. Did it work? Damn right BUT a flaring tool looks better, is quicker, and is much safer. The right tool for the right job goes a long way (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[Eric_Shea]

Send him to Barne's & Noble and have him grab the latest issue of Excellence.

[tat2dphreak]

If he has a little more to spend, he could consider the 914's big brother - the Boxster.

we've found some Boxster's in the 12-15 range, but he's known a few people at his work that had bad luck with the early boxsters... and the repair bills were scary... I can't say that I've known anyone with bad luck on boxsters.... I just don't know many people who've had them at all...

[Eric_Shea]

I just don't know many people who've had them at all

Check with your wife's friends... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[tat2dphreak]

Check with your wife's friends...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[Mikey914]

The belts and water pump are a must if there's no documentation. They are kind of a pain, but they can be done by yourself. I got to the point that I could tension them by ear. They make a very distinct sound if overtightened. I started tight and backed them off until they just stopped whirring. I had a frined I could borrow the tool (the $500 Porsche special tool) from and found that was about where it clicked.

I thought that I had the fire issue dealt with as I changes out all the fuel lines, but it was a weld on the fuel rail that got me. Not the hose.

Great car, I need to get mine up and running again, just no time.

[Dr Evil]

Great, another car to want (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) I want to make MD money so I can afford the shop it would take to adequately take car of a 944. I like them, but lack the resources to care for one.

[Mikey914]

If you can work on a 914 trans you can certainly do most of the work on a 944. They're just big Audi motors. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Really, they're not that bad, they don't really even rust. The turbo if it's not tweaked will deliver a reliable power for a daily driver that is awesome.