Electrical, Poll Options

[rsrguy3]

So I inherit my sons fourteen, and, I get injection back on it. Good news! It runs and drives! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) This is gonna be my daily, while the 911 sits in the garage. Not so good news, after pulling the pedal cluster and shifter I found multiple melt spots ALL through the harness all the way up to the cluster. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) So.... we tear apart the parts car, and carefully extract the harness, fender flares and other goodies, then we cut up the bad tub and threw it away over 2 weeks, that made the wife happy. The bummer for me, I have to park the 14 cause I don't want to have it burn down on me, so my daily is now my truck, no where near as fun as a 14.
I have a tub, that with a bit of rust repair will be good to go, then after paint, all the other car gets transplanted to the new tub. I'll not be staying stock with this, 5 lug, 160 hp, flared, Fuch's, the list goes on, this car will be completely rust protected and will be driven in rain, shine, snow, frogs, and locusts, you get the picture. The highest priority, will be dependability, first and foremost! Any way I'd like info from my brethren as to what you've done as far as the E-systems on your cars go. Thanx in advance.

[Mike Bellis]

You need an "all of the above" in your poll.
Change your harness if...
1) Concorse restoration
2) Full custom show car
3) paranoid about fixing it yourself.
4) The car's harness is so wasted, it's not repairable.

If you are stripping the car, pull the harness and repair the dammaged wires. Buy some wire the same size and color, a soldering iron, shrink tubing and a heat gun.

Wire insulation has a life span. After time the insulation will dry and crack. Even if you do find a donor harness, it may not be much better than what you have. As long as you cut and replace one wire at a time, your repair will be easy.

A painless harness is made for American cars and will not directly work with the 914 without many modifications. The main issues will be: Headlights, Turn signals and brake lights. To modify the Painless harness is an advanced task and should not be attempted unless you are confident. If you are just using the 914 as a race car, the painless will be "painless" to install because the harness will be stripped down.

I would recommend changing the fuse panel. The old German fuses suck!

[realred914]

I would consider a car with an aftermarket fuse or wireing system to be hacked. real loss in value, desirability, and repairability.

repair teh stock system as close as you can to stock. Wires in a car that has not been abused should still be fine for many decades of use.

chances are good that the melted wires you have are due to either
1. Aftermarket accesories added that were not fused right
2. Damage to the wires by accident, carelessness (ie the wires are re-routed, adn correct anti-chaffing measures are not taken.
3. some freak failure.


My 914 is some 40 years old, the wires are intact and stock, yes I have done some minor repairs on teh wires, mainly in the engine bay on the connector ends (worn connectors or ragged wires at teh conector)

the things that really do fail by wear and tear at the 40 year point (milage dependant) are things like the turn signal switch, and stock is about the only sensible option for replacement of the switch (I suppose you could be cheap and tacky and put the turn switch on your dash as a toggle switch or some funky thing


keep it real, keep it stock, dont hack up your wires for aftermarket junk.

reapir what you have, if real bad, then get a sappre harness and swap our use bits for repair.

[rsrguy3]

What kind of mods, other than the fuse block, would be wise? Examples, like beefing up any given circuits or adding a circuit, for radio etc.

[underthetire]

Well, stereo depends on what your gonna do. Amplifiers etc. I would pull a wire for the oil pressure sender since it's not there. Some might say a harness for a front mounted fuel pump.

[rsrguy3]

Would you mind describing those mods in greater detail?

[Mike Bellis]

What kind of mods, other than the fuse block, would be wise? Examples, like beefing up any given circuits or adding a circuit, for radio etc.

One of the best upgrades for any car is the Alternator. Replace the charge wire (big Red) from the Alternator to the battery. Use a number 3 or 4 gauge stranded wire for this. While your at it, add a couple of extra ground straps from the engine block or tranny to the chassis. This will help your alternator work less and make your lights brighter.

A basic Stereo (radio) can share power with the cigerette lighter (red wire behind lighter). If you intend to run an amplifier, run a new wire directly from the battery, 10 gauge or bigger. Make sure your new wire has a replaceable fuse within 18 inches of the battery.

If you are going to take the harness out of the car, add several wires from the front of the car to the engine compartment. These will be spares for future use or emergency replacement of a bad wire.

[rsrguy3]

Thanks Mike, that is exactly what I'm looking for, as I have to re-wire the new tub, I wanted to post photo's but I get a msg that the file size is to big. What other considderations are there if I want to run a new headlight set up, like xenon's. I like that diagram, I have one just like it for the 911 I can't remember where I got it though

[Mike Bellis]

Thanks Mike, that is exactly what I'm looking for, as I have to re-wire the new tub, I wanted to post photo's but I get a msg that the file size is to big. What other considderations are there if I want to run a new headlight set up, like xenon's. I like that diagram, I have one just like it for the 911 I can't remember where I got it though

Xenon is just a gas. There are many "xenon" lights on the market. You can get an H4 lense and xenon H4 bulb. This would install just like a sealed beam. Plug and play. You can also get an H4 lense and an HID lamp kit. This will give you better light and use less energy at the same time. Most HID kits use only 35 watts compared to 55 watts from a halogen.

There are several types of HID's on the market. 1) Low only, 2) High/Low with a halogen High filiment, 3) High/Low with a servo. #3 is the best type to get. It has a servo motor that moves a reflector for the High/Low function. This will give you HID for both High and Low. Some kits are plug and play, some require splicing of wires. Both are easy to install. Every HID kit comes with a ballast that must be mounted clost to the lamp. Extending and splicing the ballast wires is not recommended.

HID's come in many color spectrums, measured in "K". stay between 4500K to 6000K. This will give you the best reflective light. The higher the number (up to 12000K) will give you a blue/purple light that will not reflect well. 4500K will give you the closest to white light. Expect to pay $100 plus for an HID kit and you will need H4 leses first.

[rsrguy3]

So throw away the h4 one piece lights I have, for the euro h4, thats the one with the removable filament, right? Then get the servo operated hid's and they fit in the same way as the h4 bulb? How long is that balast wire.
Has there been a thread on installing hid's on the forum here?

[Mike Bellis]

So throw away the h4 one piece lights I have, for the euro h4, thats the one with the removable filament, right? Then get the servo operated hid's and they fit in the same way as the h4 bulb? How long is that balast wire.
Has there been a thread on installing hid's on the forum here?

Don't throw away your sealed beams, just put them on a shelf. The Bus Depot has the best pricing on the removable filiment type H4 or you can try Ebay. I would use Ebay for the HID kit.

The balast wire is around 12 inches. I've never seen a thread on HID's here, you should start one. Most of the HID sellers will not have the servo type. Look at the description carefully to find them. I put them on my 911 and loved the light.

[realred914]

So throw away the h4 one piece lights I have, for the euro h4, thats the one with the removable filament, right? Then get the servo operated hid's and they fit in the same way as the h4 bulb? How long is that balast wire.
Has there been a thread on installing hid's on the forum here?

Don't throw away your sealed beams, just put them on a shelf. The Bus Depot has the best pricing on the removable filiment type H4 or you can try Ebay. I would use Ebay for the HID kit.

The balast wire is around 12 inches. I've never seen a thread on HID's here, you should start one. Most of the HID sellers will not have the servo type. Look at the description carefully to find them. I put them on my 911 and loved the light.

a sealed beam halogen is very economical, no hassels with the stupid removable H4 bulbs, sooner or latter that expensive H4 assembly will corrode or cloud up , the seals do fail. the sealed beam with halgen bulb permatly mounted is a direct replacement for sealed beam regular bulbs. You get halogen without the hassel of the H4 crap.

I recommend adding relays if you want the most light.

really just get some generic sealed beam halogens. that will make you very happy and save a huge chunk of change, HUGE!!!

[rickthejetman]

why is the painless harness not compatible? i ask because my car is getting a rewire and i am going to use a universal (summit racing) harness and i really can't see anything to complex about the whole thing. headlights will just need an extra curcuit to power the motors.

p.s. my car was way past concours restoration. so now its subie powered

[rsrguy3]

Ya, what he said, LOL! Also, Could you describe the head light relay? I've herd some stories about head light wireing not being up to snuff. Should this be a concern? Should I replace the wireing on that circuit in my salvaged harness with a bigger guage and fuse? The harness looks ok, but anything that appears suspect will be replaced before install.

[Mike Bellis]

why is the painless harness not compatible? i ask because my car is getting a rewire and i am going to use a universal (summit racing) harness and i really can't see anything to complex about the whole thing. headlights will just need an extra curcuit to power the motors.

p.s. my car was way past concours restoration. so now its subie powered

Most German cars use a Left Light Circuit and a Right Light circuit. This is further broken down to High, Low, Park and turn.
High Beam 2 circuits
Low Beam 2 circuits
Park/turn 2 circuits
Additionally, the turn signals are not part of the brake light circuit like American cars. The power for the lights is switched through the key unlike American cars.

Americn cars have the brake light circuit as part of the turn signal switch. At the center, both brake lights illuminate. Lever up, Left brake and Right flash. Lever down Right brake, Left flash. In a 914, the brake circuit is not part of the turn signal circuit.

If you understand the internal schematic of the turn signal switch, Hazard relay and Headlight switch it is possible to rewire the car with aftermarket harnesses. You will need many more wires than your kit will provide.

Many American cars use a positive door light circuit. German cars use a ground door light circuit.

So It can be done but this is not a job for a novice. If you simply swap wire for wire it is easyer than trying to recreate the harness from scratch.

[rsrguy3]

Thanks Mike, now how about that other stuff?

[Mike Bellis]

Ya, what he said, LOL! Also, Could you describe the head light relay? I've herd some stories about head light wireing not being up to snuff. Should this be a concern? Should I replace the wireing on that circuit in my salvaged harness with a bigger guage and fuse? The harness looks ok, but anything that appears suspect will be replaced before install.

I would recommend going one size bigger on every wire. Automobile manufacturers install wires that are adequate and can get by. However you will make your electrical system preform better by up-sizing the wires. Every wire has some voltage drop. This drop in voltage is inversly proportional to wire size. Larger wire equals less voltage drop. many owners make it worse by using crimp type slices when hacking an electrical system. Voltage drop is also caused by corrosion. If you find that the copper has turned green or black, you have corrosion. The suspect wire should be replaced.

For best results, all wires should be soldered and shrink tubed. The original 914 terminations are crimped and shrink tubed. For best results with terminations, "tin" the wire first with solder. Then crimp the terminal, followed by solder on the terminal. Cover with shrink tube. Tinning will slow down corrosion intrusion into the copper. This can be very time consuming but you will have a harness that will last 40 years.

Do not ever UP SIZE a fuse! If you ever have a fuse that continually blows, you have a problem. Fix it! A larger fuse will turn your harness into a fuse. This can melt your wires and possibly cause a fire.

[SirAndy]

I voted for "Use the above tested harness with an updated fuse block" ...


I've done this several times now, including on my own car. My original harness was hacked to pieces by the PO. I went with a complete new (to me) unmolested harness. The task may seem daunting at this point, but it's actually fairly straight forward.

Plus, you can inspect each and every wire and fix any problems before you put it in.

The updated fuse panels are just a added bonus.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) Andy

PS: Here's a good thread showing the process:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=13582

[rsrguy3]

Thanks guy's! This means a ton to me as I'm not afraid to put in a new harness, I just didn't want to. But I, don't tend to get rid of stuff, so I DO NOT want to ever mess with it again. As far as wire replacement goes, If the wires all look good (uncracked insulation, good connectors, etc) which are the most suspect cricuits? And whats the best place to buy wire, and is it a fruitless search to look for the origional color coded wire, in a larger guage? If I do replace. say 10-20% with larger guage wires, will it even fit the firewall and rubber grommets?

[realred914]

Ya, what he said, LOL! Also, Could you describe the head light relay? I've herd some stories about head light wireing not being up to snuff. Should this be a concern? Should I replace the wireing on that circuit in my salvaged harness with a bigger guage and fuse? The harness looks ok, but anything that appears suspect will be replaced before install.

I would recommend going one size bigger on every wire. Automobile manufacturers install wires that are adequate and can get by. However you will make your electrical system preform better by up-sizing the wires. Every wire has some voltage drop. This drop in voltage is inversly proportional to wire size. Larger wire equals less voltage drop. many owners make it worse by using crimp type slices when hacking an electrical system. Voltage drop is also caused by corrosion. If you find that the copper has turned green or black, you have corrosion. The suspect wire should be replaced.

For best results, all wires should be soldered and shrink tubed. The original 914 terminations are crimped and shrink tubed. For best results with terminations, "tin" the wire first with solder. Then crimp the terminal, followed by solder on the terminal. Cover with shrink tube. Tinning will slow down corrosion intrusion into the copper. This can be very time consuming but you will have a harness that will last 40 years.

Do not ever UP SIZE a fuse! If you ever have a fuse that continually blows, you have a problem. Fix it! A larger fuse will turn your harness into a fuse. This can melt your wires and possibly cause a fire.

dont solder too much on connecotrs, many connectors are made as a spring material so that they can grab tight to the other end (thinking of the 1/4 inch connectors used in much of the car)
if you over heat them while soldering, you will destroy the heat treatment, and they will become soft and no long have a bite on the connection. you will then have loose connector issues until you replace the ruined ones, so go real real easy on the heat when dealing with connectors that must bite onto the other end with spring pressure.