Underbody under coating, What to use Options

[Tman914]

Going to do some under coating on the 914 what are we useing out there
spray cans , roller , paint brush & air less

[realred914]

clean and de-rust with sanding, remove losse seam sealer then paint with an epoxy primer, then seam seal with a flexible urathane type sealer, then paint over seam seal with epoxy paint, then spray on Wurth Brand undercoat with teh undercoat gun. very nice!!!! bomb proof!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chowtime.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/santa_smiley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yellowsleep[1].gif)

[veltror]

I need to do something simialr, I do not want to go thru another rebuild, I was going to use a pick-up bed liner spray but that was v expensive so I am going to use this

http://www.anti-slip-paint.co.uk/protectak...ellow-p-20.html

[VaccaRabite]

I used Eastwoods Chassis Black enamel. Takes a few days to fully cure, but it is tough stuff.

Zach

[realred914]

I used Eastwoods Chassis Black enamel. Takes a few days to fully cure, but it is tough stuff.

Zach

be very carefull with eastwood paints, they sell shitty paints, really shitty paints. they offer discount paints proices and you get what you pay for. they label there own stuff, but I am sure it is the cheapest paint they can get.

instead by from a big name paint maker, like 3M, PPG etc.... they do a much better job, and make great compatible coatings.

eastwood is just making a fast buck on hyped up "specialist car" paint. I mean come on now, whod want eastwoods paints that take days and days to cure, when you can buy catalyzed epoxy from one of the big names, it cures in hours,

eastwood rust converter is a disaster, you know they had to recall it? it actually promoted corrosion under it, ask me how i had to get the entire underside of a 356 blasted to remove that shit!!!!!

they admitted to me that they had probelms with that shit.

the chassis black they sell (that takes forever to dry, oh, and did they include that sticker on the can that counterdicks the cans instructions. the can said 2 or 3 coats, the sticker they added says one coat now, one thin coat else it wont cure! I had that stuff trying to cure for weeks.

Eastwood sells shit for paint, horrible products, why would you want to deal with rank ammatures that repackage junk no-name paints?

get some real automotive paints, it is a world of differance, a huge differance.

fuck eastwood.

[VaccaRabite]

For what its worth, I have tried several different rust converters, and the Eastwoods product (the 2 part converter - I have not tried the spray can stuff) worked just as good as the other stuff I have tried.

The converter only works on the top most layer of rust, so you still have to do all the prep. Scale has to be removed, and I still wire wheel most of the badness away before I gop on the converter.

But, these are the steps you would have to do with any converter, if you expected it to work well. Any pockets of rust not hit by the converter will continue to rust under the converter.

Zach

[realred914]

For what its worth, I have tried several different rust converters, and the Eastwoods product (the 2 part converter - I have not tried the spray can stuff) worked just as good as the other stuff I have tried.

The converter only works on the top most layer of rust, so you still have to do all the prep. Scale has to be removed, and I still wire wheel most of the badness away before I gop on the converter.

But, these are the steps you would have to do with any converter, if you expected it to work well. Any pockets of rust not hit by the converter will continue to rust under the converter.

Zach

prep is important, that was not the issue, the converter remains corrosive when it is exposed to any moisture. if you could top coat it right away with a sealer it should be fine, howver that is impossible becuae you have to allow drying time, the humidity in the air is enough to start rust on what formaly was clean metal (trust me I did plenty of tests once I found failure, this shit actaully promotes corrosion of otherwise clean rust free metal.

if it is humid enough before top coat, the top coat will blister as the converter cuases rust. if the top coat is chipped, exposing the converter, the converter will rapidly take on water from the air and promote deep pitting corrosion. this is highly accelerated by the converter verses side by side test of untreated metal.

the bottom line is eastwood had to re-formulate this shit (still dont trust it) they acknowledgeed they had many customer complaints (do some internet research on car club and find out what happened to others) yet they continued to sell this shit until there stock was depleted, they even put it on sale price to get rid of it (they should have destroyed it)
they knew they had a probelms for over a year. very simple back ward tests proved that this shit promotes corrosion, no matter what kind of prep you do, even on un-rusted metal.

this system cannot work, one chip in t he top coat and you have accelerated rusting, humid day when you apply, or you wait too long (note the fast top coat time they recommend, your racing aginst rust forming, dont top coat and in a couple day it turns very rusty) with top coat and you have rust under your top coat eating away.

I have done lots of coating tests in my profession, this eastwood paint is pure shitty junk, it will promote corrosion, it appera to be about as corrosive as sea water.

it may look nice and shinny on top, but it is a disaster underneith it.

once bit, twice shy, stay away from cheapo junk paint like eastwood, instead get it from a company that know paint and tests paint, not some discount house that re-lables someone elses low bid junk paint.


fuck eastwood!

[VaccaRabite]

interesting.

Some years ago I did a test with POR-15 - brushed it on some rusty metal and let it weather - failed within a year.
Maybe I should do testing with this stuff too. I did not need to use it much on the 914 - but we used to use a ton of it on the old armored cars.

Zach

[realred914]

interesting.

Some years ago I did a test with POR-15 - brushed it on some rusty metal and let it weather - failed within a year.
Maybe I should do testing with this stuff too. I did not need to use it much on the 914 - but we used to use a ton of it on the old armored cars.

Zach

i got a floor pan wire brushed most all the rust off, shinny metal in some areas, used teh rust converter, then top coat with chassis black (a cheapo slow dry low tech enamel it appears to be)

anyplace you chip the top coat you see the drak color of the rustconverter under it. within days the color tunrs redish rust color, then it begins to flake. accelerated rust is taking place.

now chip the top coat paint, and you see the dark rust converter under it, now take some sand paper and remove that rust converter coating, and watch that teh rust does not come back very fast if at all (if kept dry) but any area with exposed rust converter will rapidly rust, even moisture in the air is enough. they rust then creep under the solid topcoat.

then again if you had a humid day when you did the top caot or if you waited too long between coats (heck tehefirst coat had not even dired before the time limit was up for the top coat!) then you probably have rust growing under teh chassis black.

read too many car forums wher folks had this kind of probelm, months or year later, massive rust lifts the top coat, or the slightest chip results in rust as if the part was laying in salt water.

horrible stuff

there was no technique I could find for application that prevented rust from forming under neith the top coat, nor preventing massive deep pitting rust when there is a chip or scrath in the top coat.

this stuff is pure crap.

eastwood is dirt for continuing to sell this stuff they knew they had problems with.

to hell with them

[FlatIV]

So what do you people think of POR-15?

Andrew

[underthetire]

Don't know about por15, but I've used loctite extend, worked well in my old ford PU.

[joefri187]

So what do you people think of POR-15?

Andrew

Por-15 has worked well for me. I did my trailing arms (Chassis Black), my shift rod (Gloss black) and some repairs to my floor boards. Started with their Metal Ready and then the paint per their instructions. The gloss turned out like powder coat. Tough as nails.... The bad news.... Can't paint over it. Even using their primer, nothing likes to stick to it very well...

[scotty b]

Back to the topic at hand. 3M, Wurth, U-pol. Nothing else. 3M spray cans do a great job and do not require an additional gun to apply.

[Krank]

A wee bit OT....does anyone know exactly what the original material the factory used to undercoated the belly pan with?

[Eric_Shea]

Wurth

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net-1110-1271809466.1.jpg)

[Rleog]

Wurth undercoat? ...applied directly onto primer? ....enamel? How do you prep prior to the Wurth?

Thanks

[Pat Garvey]

Going to do some under coating on the 914 what are we useing out there
spray cans , roller , paint brush & air less

Well, youve had a bunch of replies. Some are OK, others are downright disastrous!

So, let's think about this.....
Porsche actually did a pretty decent job here. Not perfect, but lets see . Anything from the period had thinly painted undercarriages. Most had nothing but a thin coat of primer over the metal, and they were doomed to rust badly in 6-7 years. People "diss" 914's as rustbuckets, but most original 914's from the western states are relatively rust free. Why? Because Porsche applied a 3M compound called "Schutz" to the undercarriage. Like any asphalt based product, it dries out with time(doesn't have to - see the Originality forum).

So, assuming yours is dried out & unresponsive to emolients, you'll need to replaced parts of it. Chip off the dried stuff to bare paint level (yes, it's there). Brush & clean these exposed areas with something harsh (Simple Green, 409, etc), & let dry for a few hours. If there are small rusty areas, treat them & prime. If there are large areas of rust go to another forum - this won't work for you.

When all is dry respray with 3M Body Shutz. From a rattle can will work, but leave the wrong texture. Best texture comes from the gun that 3m sells (inexpensive) and compressor, using bulk product and about 25-30 psi.
PAT

[Lou W]

Going to do some under coating on the 914 what are we useing out there
spray cans , roller , paint brush & air less

Well, youve had a bunch of replies. Some are OK, others are downright disastrous!

So, let's think about this.....
Porsche actually did a pretty decent job here. Not perfect, but lets see . Anything from the period had thinly painted undercarriages. Most had nothing but a thin coat of primer over the metal, and they were doomed to rust badly in 6-7 years. People "diss" 914's as rustbuckets, but most original 914's from the western states are relatively rust free. Why? Because Porsche applied a 3M compound called "Schutz" to the undercarriage. Like any asphalt based product, it dries out with time(doesn't have to - see the Originality forum).

So, assuming yours is dried out & unresponsive to emolients, you'll need to replaced parts of it. Chip off the dried stuff to bare paint level (yes, it's there). Brush & clean these exposed areas with something harsh (Simple Green, 409, etc), & let dry for a few hours. If there are small rusty areas, treat them & prime. If there are large areas of rust go to another forum - this won't work for you.

When all is dry respray with 3M Body Shutz. From a rattle can will work, but leave the wrong texture. Best texture comes from the gun that 3m sells (inexpensive) and compressor, using bulk product and about 25-30 psi.
PAT

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I stripped it down to bare metal, primered it, then shot the Body Shutz. You can paint over the Body Shutz if you want to, I shot clear over mine.

[charliew]

I've used 3m body shutz and I've used spray can asphalt undercoat. The asphalt undercoat is ok but oil or gas will remove it and it stays tacky a long time. I don't like it on any nice vehicles. 40 years ago it was all I was aware of. Now I don't use it. I do like the idea of top coating body shutz with clear. A lot of guys won't like the price of the gun though but it is the same gun you use for two part bedliner products. Personally if I'm going to the trouble of cleaning up a pan bottom I will use a non sanding epoxy primer then any seam sealer if needed then more primer and a top coat even if it's just industrial enamel before the shutz goes on.

The shutz gun I use screws on the can though.

[Krank]

Wurth

Maybe I should have been a bit more specific...I meant the sound deadner, sure makes a mess removing with a wire brush. Any chemical process that works?