West Coast Mid-Engine Shootout June 12th and 13th Options

[J P Stein]

Who knows......
We went to Packwood yesterday with the OR SCCA.

Thee results were up within 4 hours of the event finish.
You may see the full results from the WCMESO within a week. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1m FRUN 96 Keith Brown 90 Mazda Miata 52.245
2m XP 41 Britain Smith 74 Porsche 914/6 52.616
3m CM 143 Andy Howe 82 Reynard FF 52.906
4m PSS 180 Ryan Otis 03 Corvette Z06 53.697
5m PDP 190 Ron Bauer 94 Mazda Miata 53.735
6m FRUN 180 Ryan Otis 03 Corvette Z06 54.208
7m PBS 42 Adam Ruff 07 Pont Sols GXP 54.270
8m PDP 90 Jim Daniels 94 Mazda Miata 54.333
9m XP 4 Doug Skinner 74 Porsche 914 54.377
10m EM 89 Nathan Korstad 84 VW Rabbit 54.439
11m PSMF 198 Tom Kotzian 06 Mini Cooper 54.778
12m SSM 87 Chad Olerich 07 Corvette Z06 55.395
13m SS 8 Denis Cornforth 08 Corvette Z06 55.835
14m SS 21 Steve Barnes 03 Corvette Z06 56.044
15m PSS 80 Dan Bullis 03 Corvette Z06 56.183
16m PES 95 Jerry Jenkins 94 Mazda Miata 56.199
17m WDP 90 Tami Daniels 94 Mazda Miata 56.209
18m BS 21 Chuck Spittal 91 Corvette 56.378
19m SMF 13 Perry Keller 90 Honda Civic 56.483
20m PSTR 3 James Paulson 06 Mazda MX5 56.722
21m PSTX 71 Karl Coleman 04 Mazda RX8 56.787
22m SS 121 James Shepherd 03 Corvette Z06 56.815
23m SMF 95 Becky Zacharda 07 Mini Cooper S 56.853
24m FRUN 171 George Hudetz 04 Mazda RX8 56.881
25m STR 93 Brian Clemons 06 Mazda MX5 56.958
26m FRUN 71 Richard Lockwood 87 Mazda RX7 57.141
27m BSP 179 Robert Steck 06 Subaru STi 57.263
28m FRUN 152 Keith Brown 07 Mustang Shelb 57.580
29m BSP 79 Bob Ocker 06 Subaru STi 57.585
30m SM 13 Dan Hall 05 Subaru STi 57.755
31m STR 193 Morris Green 06 Mazda MX5 57.812
32m PBS 142 Dennis Healy 07 Pont Sols GXP 57.842
33m FRUN 25 Jerry Lamb 07 Mustang Shelb 57.857
34m FRUN 880 Dan Bullis 03 Corvette Z06 57.862
35m SMF 195 Allan Zacharda 07 Mini Cooper S 58.026
36m DP 41 Derek Loree 90 Mazda Miata 58.103
37m FRUN 98 Keith Gover 06 Mini Cooper 58.178
38m EP 19 Dan Kuehn 77 Mazda RX3 58.205
39m PSTX 171 George Hudetz 04 Mazda RX8 58.221
40m PAS 36 Liz Bacon 06 Pors Cayman S 58.390
41m DSP 32 Michael Gatza 97 BMW 328i 58.493
42m CS 17 Bruce Harmon 07 Pont Sols 58.618
43m CM 43 Chuck Jarvie 82 Reynard 58.714
44m BSP 12 Barry Cogut 01 Pors Cayman S 58.770
45m BSP 36 Steve Krygier 04 MS Miata 58.796
46m CS 56 Nick Bender 99 Mazda Miata 59.035
47m SMF 65 Gilbert Calkins 04 Dodge SRT4 59.072
48m FRUN 15 Jon Balgley 06 Honda CivicSi 59.488
49m EP 9 George Wilder 77 Mazda RX3 59.496
50m FRUN 371 Richard Lockwood 87 Mazda RX7 59.635
51m GS 15 Jon Balgley 06 Honda CivicSi 59.829
52m WES 95 Kyra Jenkins 94 Mazda Miata 59.832
53m EM 68 Jennifer Ocker 84 VW Rabbit 60.123
54m STX 425 Phil Nishikawa 02 Subaru WRX 60.137
55m FRUN 77 Josh McCall 87 Mazda RX7 60.183
56m STS 325 Jeff Petersen 90 Mazda Miata 60.246
57m WES 70 Heather Howe 94 Mazda Miata 60.525
58m FRUN 43 Heather Howe 82 Reynard FF 60.630
59m TDS 37 Russ Rainforth 07 Mini Cooper S 60.796
60m GS 7 Dominic Stone 05 Dodge SRT4 60.819
61m SM 52 Dallas Cutler 06 Mitsu Evo 60.828
62m FRUN 52 Kristi Brown 07 Mustang Shelb 61.450
63m ST 5 Scott McCusker 00 Honda Civic 61.539
64m WBS 42 Christina Billings 07 Pont Sols GXP 61.562
65m BSP 1 Jason Sampson 95 BMW M3 61.778
66m SMFL 113 Andrea Keller 91 Honda Civic 61.924
67m TDS 7 Tina Rainforth 07 Mini Cooper S 62.050
68m FRUN 80 Jackie Smith 03 Corvette Z06 62.197
69m SSML 871 Jami Olerich 07 Corvette Z06 62.575
70m ST 90 Sam Boyce 92 Nissan 240SX 63.351
71m TCS 97 Rick Moore 97 BMW Z3 63.815
72m ST 13 James Keller 91 Honda Civic 64.198
73m DP 6 John Banton 79 Fiat Spider 64.217
74m FRUN 62 Earl Stanton 93 Mazda Miata 64.220
75m FRUN 323 Kathy Averitt 93 Honda Civic 65.482
76m FS 99 Carol Christensen 99 Ford Mustang 65.613
77m TCS 73 Eric Keerbs 07 Saturn Sky 65.853
78m TDS 22 Scott Turner 07 Mini Cooper S 66.303
79m FRUN 326 Todd Averitt 71 Porsche 914 66.320
80m SS 108 Jessi Cornforth 08 Corvette Z06 66.661
81m FRUN 305 Phil Leamen 97 BMW 328is 66.829
82m FRUN 303 Sam Leamen 97 BMW 328is 66.894
83m FRUN 304 Gary Fairchild 06 BMW Z4 67.272
84m DSP 1 Travis Walter 07 Mazdaspeed 3 67.309
85m FRUN 325 Todd Averitt 71 Porsche 914 67.328
86m SM 9 Sam Hatago 83 Toyota Supra 67.384
87m FRUN 523 Kathy Averitt 92 Honda Civic 67.820
88m FRUN 302 Sam Leamen 97 BMW 328is 70.572
89m FRUN 301 Phil Leamen 97 BMW 328is 70.694
90m ST 32 Tyler Rakes 08 Toyota Coroll 72.124
91m HS 56 Charles Herbert 03 Toyota Matrix 74.360
92m STS 532 Morgan Petersen 90 Mazda Miata 93.440
93m FRUN 311 JW Schwetz 69 Camaro 98.288
94m FRUN 64 Colin Penno 07 Toyota Yaris 99.396





.

[Chris Pincetich]

914 domination happened, that's what (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Saturday was a short, narrow course with some heavily coned areas. 97 cars total raced, I was stoked with my performance, getting very close to times from 914-4s with 2.0+ engines and race tires, me with my stock 1.7 and Dunlop street tires.

Andrew B in the Hamilton 914-4 dominated, with a 29.x, while Bill D was second with a 31.5x I think. Eric Fry was right in there, faster than the fastest Boxter or Cayman, which was Evan driving Phat Basterd (Grant's chopped Box). John Seidel, Martin MCGuire, and others arrives with trick 914s that rounded out a top 10. Most of the top 10 were 914s! I had a 33.7 sec fastest run and left feeling super jazzed.

Sunday and we got a longer course. I needed lots of coffee after a fun Saturday night, and due to the slow start kept improving times until the very last run when I posted a 41.45 sec run. Turn-out was down, about 60-70 cars total, and some of those trick 914s were absent (Bill D, where did you go?). Grant and Evan had something break on PB, and didn't run, but Evan stuck around and raced his DD BMW before jumping in Clemson's Spec Box and in 3 runs had a 38.2. Bill C was again at or near top 10 in his light, yellow, 1911 TIV 914 and Eric Fry was smokin! He momentarily grabbed TTOD with a 36.9 , stepped out of his car, and lit a cigarette. But, that was before Andrew B's run group. Andrew hit a low 37 on run 1, then 36s, then was untouched posting times in high and mid 35 secs.

Combined times for the weekend mid-engine racers had Andrew B out front by 2-3 seconds total, and likely Eric Fry in his silver 914-6 next. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Unfortunately, no group photo or t-shirt this time around (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[brilliantrot]

Chris was doing some incredible things with his 1.7L car on STREET tires. I was also very impressed that the V8 914 on 205 street tires could get around the course at all let alone put in some blazing fast time. My driving generally sucked this weekend and my frustration and whining levels were at an all time high (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) I do however concede that on a tight course the 914 is still king and by a healthy margin.

[J P Stein]

At the Shoot Out 2008 at Marina I did the basic design on the course....ran opposite directions Sat & Sunday. Dan & Larry nit picked ( (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) out some features out of safety(too fast, they said) concerns but we all agreed on the final outcome. It worked out well. It was open cornered.....by that I mean even the tight stuff had room to freelance your line and cones were close to the minimum...more than I wanted, but..... Top speed was around 65mph.

The same care should have been taken with this most recent event. Your "whining" (and others I suspect) got you a more open course the next day. It looked decent from the vids I saw, but the results were very similar. I've run a lot worse courses than those presented on either day. Adaptation is an imperative at autocross.....always has been and will be so tomorrow. Get your head around that and your AX life will be better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[DanT]

I think griping about the course is a integral portion of the total AX experience.

At this point I am just glad that we have some venues left for our use here in Norcal.
We just need to do the best we can with what we have.

Part of the problem at Alameda is the requirement that we keep speeds at or below 55mph...
also up until recently we needed to stay between the white lines that delineated the runway proper..

[brilliantrot]

I understand dealing with the city can be a major problem but the way that SoCal has seemed to overcome it is pay lots of money and have more waiver forms. Maybe it isn't an option for GGR but it might be worth taking some polls to see if there is any interest in raising prices to $65 an event (what we pay down here), and getting car counts up to ~110 if that would allow for less restrictions. Maybe faster bigger courses aren't what you guys want or that the added price isn't worth it to the majority or the city can't be enticed with more $ per day but it could be worth looking into. OCR has a blemish free safety record for and SDRs is only roughly one damaged car a year or less and they run full on DEs in the parking lot and have a lot to run into. So it is possible to run fast courses safely. Alameda is large enough to run some really fun, fast, big courses, especially with a couple days spend with some weed killer and a leaf blower (or better yet a street sweeper like El Toro has had on occasion, yes we are spoiled).

[6freak]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) to all the winners ....Toll ya Eric was gonna put the smack down on ya boys (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) even in his ancient 914 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) ..he just has so much car control and been in the same car for so many years ...you Cali guys very seldom get to run in the rain if at all ,wet pavement really help you learn car control and 1/3 of our events seem to be in the rain so when its dry were flat out...Anywho ya`ll had a good time and thats what really counts ..

PIECE OUT (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[grantsfo]

Overall great event. Sorry I missed second day but between mechanical and not feeling well I jammed.

First day was dominated by 914's and Boxsters. Ken J only ran AM on Saturday and got into mid 30's thats smoking fast for street going Boxster! We had setup issues with my car on tight slow course. Worked on car AM and by PM it was getting closer but we were out driven and our classed by competion! Think I got 31 flat. Think I went even faster on one run but timer crapped out on me. No way I was going to catch small 914's on the Saturday course.

914's ruled! Boxsters were schooled! Well sort of! Think Ken beat Eric.

Dont forget an old tail dragger on Saturday beat everyone except Andrew as well. It wasnt total 914 dominationa ss presented by Chris.

Huh? No rain in Cali? Have you checked weather reports lately. We had rain in Nor Cal until June this year. I have run plenty of wet events!

This post has been edited by grantsfo: Jun 14 2010, 11:18 PM

[grantsfo]

At the Shoot Out 2008 at Marina I did the basic design on the course....ran opposite directions Sat & Sunday. Dan & Larry nit picked ( (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) out some features out of safety(too fast, they said) concerns but we all agreed on the final outcome. It worked out well. It was open cornered.....by that I mean even the tight stuff had room to freelance your line and cones were close to the minimum...more than I wanted, but..... Top speed was around 65mph.

The same care should have been taken with this most recent event. Your "whining" (and others I suspect) got you a more open course the next day. It looked decent from the vids I saw, but the results were very similar. I've run a lot worse courses than those presented on either day. Adaptation is an imperative at autocross.....always has been and will be so tomorrow. Get your head around that and your AX life will be better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The 2008 course was awesome. Just wish my 914 hadnt blown LSD that weekend! Probably wouldnt have caught Brit but we would have put in a respectable fight for second place! Much more open than what we faced this weekend but course wasnt all that bad. It just favored precision driving and people who could see through cones to course. I was actually surprised at how fast I got the big ole Phat car around the course this Saturday.

[PeeGreen 914]

A sub 40 second course? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) What kind of AX is that? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

The shortest course I have ever seen the TTOD was 43 seconds and it was done by an SAE car.

Why was it so short?

[Mr G Force]

A sub 40 second course? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) What kind of AX is that? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

The shortest course I have ever seen the TTOD was 43 seconds and it was done by an SAE car.

Why was it so short?

29 second course first day. Wasnt best course I have seen but certainly wasnt the worst. My car really didnt like the narrow tight turns. But we adapted.


Here's a guy in BMW on street tires schooling many race tire clad 914's on a very tight narrow course. Dont want to hear any complaints from 914's drivers on how narrow things were!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtUIY1lWRYM

[PeeGreen 914]

A sub 40 second course? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) What kind of AX is that? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

The shortest course I have ever seen the TTOD was 43 seconds and it was done by an SAE car.

Why was it so short?

29 second course first day. Wasnt best course I have seen but certainly wasnt the worst. My car really didnt like the narrow tight turns. But we adapted.


Here's a guy in BMW on street tires schooling many race tire clad 914's on a very tight narrow course. Dont want to hear any complaints from 914's drivers on how narrow things were!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtUIY1lWRYM

A great driver is a great driver. Sometimes the car doesn't matter (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[6freak]

A sub 40 second course? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) What kind of AX is that? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

The shortest course I have ever seen the TTOD was 43 seconds and it was done by an SAE car.

Why was it so short?

29 second course first day. Wasnt best course I have seen but certainly wasnt the worst. My car really didnt like the narrow tight turns. But we adapted.


Here's a guy in BMW on street tires schooling many race tire clad 914's on a very tight narrow course. Dont want to hear any complaints from 914's drivers on how narrow things were!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtUIY1lWRYM

I know its not the same as being in the car ,but that didnt really look tight at all ,,still cool though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) ...good times....MR242 has a vid somewhere of a really good AX course that was pretty tight ..and last weekends had a figure 8 in it .....weeeeee..........Tims course`s are always good sometime we all think he`s sick in the head

[J P Stein]

The Packwood course was a near opposite of what we ran at Wendover.
Wendover was 2nd gear soon after the start then hold on all the way....maybe 65 mph tops

Packwood was semi tight cornered but they were open enough to freelance your lines....1st all the way......bout 56 mph tops.

No set up changes, just set the tire pressures & go. The grip at Wendover was incredible and just decent at Packwood.

Packwood:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giEHbSP40_8...player_embedded

Wendover:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11xqdJlhiow

[grantsfo]

914 domination happened, that's what (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Saturday was a short, narrow course with some heavily coned areas. 97 cars total raced, I was stoked with my performance, getting very close to times from 914-4s with 2.0+ engines and race tires, me with my stock 1.7 and Dunlop street tires.

Andrew B in the Hamilton 914-4 dominated, with a 29.x, while Bill D was second with a 31.5x I think. Eric Fry was right in there, faster than the fastest Boxter or Cayman, which was Evan driving Phat Basterd (Grant's chopped Box). John Seidel, Martin MCGuire, and others arrives with trick 914s that rounded out a top 10. Most of the top 10 were 914s! I had a 33.7 sec fastest run and left feeling super jazzed.

Sunday and we got a longer course. I needed lots of coffee after a fun Saturday night, and due to the slow start kept improving times until the very last run when I posted a 41.45 sec run. Turn-out was down, about 60-70 cars total, and some of those trick 914s were absent (Bill D, where did you go?). Grant and Evan had something break on PB, and didn't run, but Evan stuck around and raced his DD BMW before jumping in Clemson's Spec Box and in 3 runs had a 38.2. Bill C was again at or near top 10 in his light, yellow, 1911 TIV 914 and Eric Fry was smokin! He momentarily grabbed TTOD with a 36.9 , stepped out of his car, and lit a cigarette. But, that was before Andrew B's run group. Andrew hit a low 37 on run 1, then 36s, then was untouched posting times in high and mid 35 secs.

Combined times for the weekend mid-engine racers had Andrew B out front by 2-3 seconds total, and likely Eric Fry in his silver 914-6 next. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Unfortunately, no group photo or t-shirt this time around (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

...and then there is reality. Realized actual results hadnt been posted here.

http://pca-ggr.org/files/htm/061210Time.htm

http://pca-ggr.org/files/htm/061310Time.htm

This post has been edited by grantsfo: Jun 21 2010, 08:31 PM

[Chris Pincetich]

A 914 wins the Mid-Engine Shootout 2010, it's official.
Better luck next year, Boxters (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Maybe a Lotus or Tesla will join us next year. I am talking to a guy w a Tesla who runs Laguna at the annual EV day about joining us in GGR PCA for an AX.

[grantsfo]

A 914 wins the Mid-Engine Shootout 2010, it's official.
Better luck next year, Boxters (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Maybe a Lotus or Tesla will join us next year. I am talking to a guy w a Tesla who runs Laguna at the annual EV day about joining us in GGR PCA for an AX.

I think its funny that there was even some concern that that wouldnt be the outcome. Boxsters are definitely challenging assumption of 914 AX domination.

Quite a few fast 914's behind the two fast non stock Boxsters that showed up. When a 3.4 liter powered 2000 lb AX Boxster shows up in the future it may be a differnt story for the 914's.

Times are a changing.