Ignition Problem or?, Bouncy Tach and Gen Light Flashes Options

[19144jt]

I have been restoring this car for a while (1975 1.8) so it sits from time to time without being started. I am ready to get it running good to start driving it and complete the restoration. Less than a year ago I could reach in from outside the car, turn the key and it would start right up. I just replaced the fuel pump with a new one because the old one quit. Now I have to keep the key turned for maybe 15 to 20 seconds or more before it will fire and then maybe another 10 seconds while it finally catches and starts. It seems to idle fine but if I rev it even slightly from idle the tach starts to bounce wildly and the Generator light flashes on and off steadily and continuously. After searching this site It sounded like I was dealing with a bad condenser so I popped the dist out and changed out the condenser with a spare I had. I also fileld the points to remove any pits etc. and gapped them correctly. Reinstalled the dizzy and no luck...still took a lot of cranking before it would start and as soon as I gave it a little gas above idle the light was back on and the tach bouncing. I am not sure if the long start time (showed up conspicuously after new fuel pump installation) and the light and tach aren't two independant problems. I want to test the cold start valve and switch but it has been too warm to get below the test temp. Any suggestions?

John

[realred914]

I have been restoring this car for a while (1975 1.8) so it sits from time to time without being started. I am ready to get it running good to start driving it and complete the restoration. Less than a year ago I could reach in from outside the car, turn the key and it would start right up. I just replaced the fuel pump with a new one because the old one quit. Now I have to keep the key turned for maybe 15 to 20 seconds or more before it will fire and then maybe another 10 seconds while it finally catches and starts. It seems to idle fine but if I rev it even slightly from idle the tach starts to bounce wildly and the Generator light flashes on and off steadily and continuously. After searching this site It sounded like I was dealing with a bad condenser so I popped the dist out and changed out the condenser with a spare I had. I also fileld the points to remove any pits etc. and gapped them correctly. Reinstalled the dizzy and no luck...still took a lot of cranking before it would start and as soon as I gave it a little gas above idle the light was back on and the tach bouncing. I am not sure if the long start time (showed up conspicuously after new fuel pump installation) and the light and tach aren't two independant problems. I want to test the cold start valve and switch but it has been too warm to get below the test temp. Any suggestions?

John

clean up the elctric connections at the coil, that is were your tach picks up signal. maybe a general clean up of grounds is in order? depending on how car is stored, moisture can corrode teh electric contacts at wires. maybe bad fuel if it sits a long time, fuel can go bad.

to test the cold starting valve switch, you need to be able to place it in a freezer to get it cold enough to test. unless you drive in freezing weather, it wont be of much use to you. you can jumpe r the swtich to determine of the cold injector wroks or not,


make sure no animal has belt a nest or web in yoru air box, that flap in there is sensitve and if a spider has built up a nest int here, that can screw it up.

good luck

[19144jt]

OK, I'll try cleaning the terminals up. Looking through the site and searching for generator light yields some pretty good info but I haven't heard of one situation where the light flashes on and off like mine is doing. It flashes on and off like a turn signal would with about the same timing too.

[19144jt]

OK, I cleaned up all of the terminals on the coil, changed the points and condenser and tried two other voltage regulators from my parts cars. Still have both problems: have to crank a long time before it fires over and as soon as I hit the accelerator and take it off idle the generator light starts flashing (as a turn signal would) on and off and the tach bounces like crazy. I still haven't found the flashing gen light in any other post on the forum. I am aslo convinced that the starting problem is independant of the gen light and bouncing tach. On the starting problem...could the two fuel hoses under the fuel tank being switched with each other (when I did the fuel pump) be causing the lag in firing off? I thought maybe the tube size was smaller for the return or somthing like that line of thought could cause a delay in fuel reaching the injection system. Anyway, somebody has to have heard of the flashing gen light problem right?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

John

[underthetire]

Just a thought here, is it possible your brake warning lamp and alt warning lamp are swapped?

[19144jt]

Could be but I haven't screwed with that area yet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I'll check when I get home to see but I doubt it. Does the brake light flash when the parking brake is on and the car is started? I did replace all of the rusted parking brake cables with new ones last year so the parking brake would work and it is set come to think of it.

John

[underthetire]

Yes, the brake lamp flashes with the parking brake handle up and key on.

[19144jt]

OK, it's not the e-brake light switched with the gen light. It is definatley the gen light that is flashing on and off and the tach still bouncing. I removed all the wiring from the relay board, removed the panel and wire-brushed all of the connections and removed and cleaned the body ground that I found in the area under the relay board. No change, gen light still flashing tach still bounces. Also, still have starting issue...takes a minute or so of cranking to get it to fire off. Itested the thermoswitch that operates the cold start valve and my test showed that the switch is bad but is was very close to the temperature threshold for testing (59 F) so I don't trust the test. Damn Claifornia mild weather! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

P.S. where is thermo switch located?

[jt914-6]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif) Thats how you do it.....

For the alt. light and bouncing tach......

[jt914-6]

You might check out these elec. diagrams....check the wiring color for the alt. light and see if it matches yours............. http://www.pelicanparts.com/914/914_electrical_diagrams.htm

[yeahmag]

Put a timing light and dwell meter on it. See that the dwell is within spec and the timing light pulses "steady". Idiot check your timing while you have all that hooked up.

[detoxcowboy]

hard to start, alt/gen light comes on and the tach bounces.. is the engine surging too? is the fuel really lean so lean it hardly starts and when it catches it bounces like its really lean with the rpm bumping down to the point the alt. light is coming on?? sounds like your turning your start key for start for 25 - 35 seconds.. starting easier than that would show it is running right.. Are you certain it is just electrical? is the engine surging along with the alt. light/tach issue?

after getting all that cleared out I could recomend a rev limiter installed inside our tach, then it will track nicely..

[Series9]

The multi-pin plugs on each end of the relay board are frequently the culprit. Start by simply unplugging and replugging them. Look at the pins and check the condition.

Besides the master ground under the dash, these plugs are the only thing the alternator light and the tachometer have in common.

[Brujo65]

you need a voltage regulator

[Dave_Darling]

One quick test: Unplug the tach wire from the coil (black with purple stripe, purple is often faded; it's the thinner of the black wires plugged into the coil, to the same side of it as the green points wire). The tach won't read anything, but if the idle smooths out and the alternator light stops flashing then the tach is shorting out internally. Or the wire that feeds the tach is.

It's a low probability thing, but it's really quick to check.

--DD

[19144jt]

Update: This thread was bumped from last August to see if we couldn't figure this out. Here is what has changed since then:

1. I have removed the points and condenser and installed an electronic ignition...Pertronix I believe (it's been a few months).
2. I have corrected the starting problem...had the two hoses attached to the fuel tank swapped from when I changed out the fuel pump, must have had too many beers that night. Now it starts right up even when very cold.
3. I swapped out many voltage regulators to see if that was it...no luck.
4. Removed alternator and regulator and had tested together at a highly reputable electric shop that rebuilds them...test was good for both the alternator and regulator.
5. I will reinstall the alternator this weekend if I survive the 100+ mile ride on my 170 HP Polaris RMK 900 snowmobile in the Sierras! I noticed when I removed it the main red lead was quite corroded and could very well be the problem.

John

[detoxcowboy]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) did not even noticed the threads age.. oopps.. you'll find it, found it?

[19144jt]

OK, I put the alternator and voltage regulator back in and the gen light was still flashing on and off. Spent most of yesterday working on this. I did finally find that when I removed the turn signal/emergency flasher relay the gen light stopped flashing and simply went to a dull glow and the tach stopped bouncing and that's where I left it. I did check the tach by removing the purple/black wire from the coil as suggested with no change. I went over every wire I could find that came even close to having anything to do with this and no luck. The alternator is charging the battery though at 13.5 to 14 volts when I checked. I couldn't find a master ground under the dash...can you tell me what to look for? I looked for a group of light brown wires and couldn't see anything. I did try unplugging the relay board connectors and plugging them back in but that didn't do it.

[underthetire]

OK, I put the alternator and voltage regulator back in and the gen light was still flashing on and off. Spent most of yesterday working on this. I did finally find that when I removed the turn signal/emergency flasher relay the gen light stopped flashing and simply went to a dull glow and the tach stopped bouncing and that's where I left it. I did check the tach by removing the purple/black wire from the coil as suggested with no change. I went over every wire I could find that came even close to having anything to do with this and no luck. The alternator is charging the battery though at 13.5 to 14 volts when I checked. I couldn't find a master ground under the dash...can you tell me what to look for? I looked for a group of light brown wires and couldn't see anything. I did try unplugging the relay board connectors and plugging them back in but that didn't do it.

Pull the fuse panel. Right above it on the body.

[r_towle]

I cant remember the reason, Dave Dyer might remember the story.
Try removing the tailight bulbs from the sockets...
There is some way that circuit can backfeed the relay board...and its wierd.
Just try unplugging the lightbulbs themselves...the tailights.

Rich