Got my car back..., along with a bendover bill Options

[underthetire]

Maybe he should change the name to BEHA, as in Been Had.

[scotty b]

SO I guess I'll be the guy to start the shit storm.

First off. I said once and stand by THE BILL IS TOO HIGH for a shop that KNOWS these cars. Just need to get that out before the flaming starts

Next. Everyone needs to look at the guys website. Assuming this is indeed his place lets point out a few things.

The majority of his gallery contains full on race cars. Porsches, Lotus, the big F word........Ferraris.......... and the like. Yes there is a lonely 356 also. My guess is the guys are used to big wallets that drop 120.00+/hr without question. They are obviously heavily into current computer programmed injection and ignition, so they probably will take longer to work on a set of archaic carbs. They are not used to them, they can do the job, but it will take longer then someone like Jake or Crusty. That said, they will charge you for EVERY minute of their time.
This is not a rip off, or a scam shop, so I feel telling people to avoid them is just wrong. No injustice was done here. William took his car to a shop loaded with " big dog " cars, did not get a written estimate, and in the end the work done was done correctly.

[rick 918-S]

SO I guess I'll be the guy to start the shit storm.

First off. I said once and stand by THE BILL IS TOO HIGH for a shop that KNOWS these cars. Just need to get that out before the flaming starts

Next. Everyone needs to look at the guys website. Assuming this is indeed his place lets point out a few things.

The majority of his gallery contains full on race cars. Porsches, Lotus, the big F word........Ferraris.......... and the like. Yes there is a lonely 356 also. My guess is the guys are used to big wallets that drop 120.00+/hr without question. They are obviously heavily into current computer programmed injection and ignition, so they probably will take longer to work on a set of archaic carbs. They are not used to them, they can do the job, but it will take longer then someone like Jake or Crusty. That said, they will charge you for EVERY minute of their time.
This is not a rip off, or a scam shop, so I feel telling people to avoid them is just wrong. No injustice was done here. William took his car to a shop loaded with " big dog " cars, did not get a written estimate, and in the end the work done was done correctly.

In some shops money talks and bullshit walks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) They are likely used to clients that go to work in three piece suits and get manicures.

[william1764]

SO I guess I'll be the guy to start the shit storm.

First off. I said once and stand by THE BILL IS TOO HIGH for a shop that KNOWS these cars. Just need to get that out before the flaming starts

Next. Everyone needs to look at the guys website. Assuming this is indeed his place lets point out a few things.

The majority of his gallery contains full on race cars. Porsches, Lotus, the big F word........Ferraris.......... and the like. Yes there is a lonely 356 also. My guess is the guys are used to big wallets that drop 120.00+/hr without question. They are obviously heavily into current computer programmed injection and ignition, so they probably will take longer to work on a set of archaic carbs. They are not used to them, they can do the job, but it will take longer then someone like Jake or Crusty. That said, they will charge you for EVERY minute of their time.
This is not a rip off, or a scam shop, so I feel telling people to avoid them is just wrong. No injustice was done here. William took his car to a shop loaded with " big dog " cars, did not get a written estimate, and in the end the work done was done correctly.

I don't disagree with Scott's assessment. In fact, I feel he is spot on for the most part. There are however an equal number of Mini’s, MG’s and a few American made muscle cars on the shop floor as well. While he may market himself as what Scotty described his bread and butter seems to be regular Joes like me. In fact, there were only 2 race cars in his shop for the entire month my car was there. More importantly, while the owner said he was “unable to provide a written” estimate he did say that he “did not feel the work would be in the thousands”...his exact words. Bottom line is that the car still pops and backfires which was the main reason for my visit in the first place. It was he who said the carbs and the fuel pump configuration were the issue and required rebuilding. Almost one month later I get the car back with the same symptoms it had when I dropped it off and 3k less in the bank. Bill

[championgt1]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) with Scotty. So go ahead and flame me too.

The OP said he knew the shop was expensive and that they told him they could not give an exact estimate. The car was repaired and paid for. I say drive and enjoy it. Lesson learned.

So all of a sudden this guy is a ripoff artist? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

[Dr Evil]

SO I guess I'll be the guy to start the shit storm.

First off. I said once and stand by THE BILL IS TOO HIGH for a shop that KNOWS these cars. Just need to get that out before the flaming starts

Next. Everyone needs to look at the guys website. Assuming this is indeed his place lets point out a few things.

The majority of his gallery contains full on race cars. Porsches, Lotus, the big F word........Ferraris.......... and the like. Yes there is a lonely 356 also. My guess is the guys are used to big wallets that drop 120.00+/hr without question. They are obviously heavily into current computer programmed injection and ignition, so they probably will take longer to work on a set of archaic carbs. They are not used to them, they can do the job, but it will take longer then someone like Jake or Crusty. That said, they will charge you for EVERY minute of their time.
This is not a rip off, or a scam shop, so I feel telling people to avoid them is just wrong. No injustice was done here. William took his car to a shop loaded with " big dog " cars, did not get a written estimate, and in the end the work done was done correctly.

I don't disagree with Scott's assessment. In fact, I feel he is spot on for the most part. There are however an equal number of Mini’s, MG’s and a few American made muscle cars on the shop floor as well. While he may market himself as what Scotty described his bread and butter seems to be regular Joes like me. In fact, there were only 2 race cars in his shop for the entire month my car was there. More importantly, while the owner said he was “unable to provide a written” estimate he did say that he “did not feel the work would be in the thousands”...his exact words. Bottom line is that the car still pops and backfires which was the main reason for my visit in the first place. It was he who said the carbs and the fuel pump configuration were the issue and required rebuilding. Almost one month later I get the car back with the same symptoms it had when I dropped it off and 3k less in the bank. Bill

This clears things up. You have been had buy a guy who charges a lot. He can charge a lot, but if he said it WOULD NOT be in the thousands, and he told you what needed to be done, did it, and the problems are not gone, then you need to fight him to un-fuck your car if he aint gonna refund (which there is little likelihood he would).

[william1764]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) with Scotty. So go ahead and flame me too.

The OP said he knew the shop was expensive and that they told him they could not give an exact estimate. The car was repaired and paid for. I say drive and enjoy it. Lesson learned.

So all of a sudden this guy is a ripoff artist? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

Ok - i'll flame you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif) . They charged more than twice the verbal estimate. "It won't be thousands of dollars" WAS the estimate provided. Its not the hourly expense that seems to be the issue here but rather the hours charged for the worked performed. I'm not against paying a premium for good work, in fact, i'd rather pay more for work done right the first time. That said, being overcharged for hours in what would be considered "commercially reasonable " is the rub. Not to mention...my issues STILL exist! Anyway, not looking to argue with anyone...was simply seeking opinions which I gratefully recieved. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) Thanks all

[carr914]

[quote name='william1764' date='Aug 26 2010, 11:02 PM' post='1361844' Its not the hourly expense that seems to be the issue here but rather the hours charged for the worked performed.
[/quote]

Sorry, the problem is he charged you for work that was not done. You brought the car in there with a problem and it left with the same problem.

[rick 918-S]

[quote name='carr914' date='Aug 26 2010, 10:31 PM' post='1361860']
[quote name='william1764' date='Aug 26 2010, 11:02 PM' post='1361844' Its not the hourly expense that seems to be the issue here but rather the hours charged for the worked performed.
[/quote]

Sorry, the problem is he charged you for work that was not done. You brought the car in there with a problem and it left with the same problem.
[/quote]

Is this true? I didn't read this whole thing. Too busy... That said, I'd contact the BBB if he doesn't make it right.

BTW: if he had given you something in writting it's likely the state laws would prohibit him from raising the price past 10% without a change signed order. Check into the law in your state. Check with your state commerce dept.

[VaccaRabite]

The issue is that the shop did the work w/o giving the customer a real indication of what the final cost would be. Which means that mistakes were made on both sides.

but still.

I have taken my Subaru to a shop that was known to always be expensive, but to always do good work. The story was similar to what William started as. The difference is that the shop CALLED me when they realized that the work was going to be $texas$. Knowing this in advance, I could choose whether or not the work was going to get done, or talk about options.

Guys here in the biz? Jake, Scotty.... If the bill is going to be $texas$ they let the customer know. I don't know about Rick, but I'd put money that he does the same based on interactions that I have had with him here.

Should William (the OP) have requested a more formal estimate? Yes. But the shop owner should have contacted him when he realized that what seems to be a tune up was going to run over $3K (and returning the car w/o fixing the problem). Not doing this is a shady, unethical business practice, and the shop owner should know better.

IMHO, the shop owner took advantage of a client.
I stand by my statement. if you are in the Maryland area, don't take your car to BEHE Performance.

Zach

[tod914]

I had a simular problem back in 2001 with Don Rosen Porsche in PA. I had the luxury to address the issues with the General Manager and VP, and recieve back some of my money as to what we both agreed was fair for the 1/2 assed work performed. Unfortunetly your dealing with a smaller shop. Bring him back the car and let him know you want the popping fixed, again. Have him itemize the time spent on each task on the bill, along with his hourly rate. Maybe a few of the guys here can chime in and see if the time he spent for each task is reasonable. His parts are about 20% or so higher than should be too. Not too big of a deal, just an observation.

[type47]

... Problem is you drove up to their shop door and they saw your ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) HOOD BADGE! time for a new avatar pix

[william1764]

I had a simular problem back in 2001 with Don Rosen Porsche in PA. I had the luxury to address the issues with the General Manager and VP, and recieve back some of my money as to what we both agreed was fair for the 1/2 assed work performed. Unfortunetly your dealing with a smaller shop. Bring him back the car and let him know you want the popping fixed, again. Have him itemize the time spent on each task on the bill, along with his hourly rate. Maybe a few of the guys here can chime in and see if the time he spent for each task is reasonable. His parts are about 20% or so higher than should be too. Not too big of a deal, just an observation.

Taking it back next week. Spoke with owner over the phone and told him my issues still existed (decel popping and brake squeal). I shared with him that I was told that in many cases popping is gasket related . His response was "could be muffler related - baffels bad" not getting proper back pressure or something. He did say however that he would make things right. We'll see if he stands by that statement if it cost him time/money. I'm going there with gaskets in hand otherwise it will sit for 3 weeks while he orders parts like the last time. Wish me luck and again thanks for "all" for the advice.

[rick 918-S]

Yes, If I were to do work I would give a ball park price. If I would run into trouble I would call! and discuss. People aren't made of money. This is fun car stuff and we only have so much money to go around. Dumb move on the shops part to assume every wallet is fat and not give written estimates and take the time to follow up with a call.

Please, when you drop the car be sure this doesn't turn into a bate and switch.

Oh we didn't change the gaskets so we had to charge you for it which means taking the car apart again.

I had this happen to me once at a famous race shop. I had a spyder gear locking pin fail on Sandy's 1971 Jag XJ6. The shaft holding the spyder gears was walking out and smacking the case. I was too busy to work on the car myself so I brought it to these guys. After change U joints, then mounts, then trailing arm bearing. They call me to pick up the car. Still not fixed. Charged to dissamble the car three times for three different repairs and never bothered to check inside the rear cover where the niose was coming from.

Short story, they adjusted the bill to parts and one laber charge and I fixed the car myself.

[realred914]

SO I guess I'll be the guy to start the shit storm.

First off. I said once and stand by THE BILL IS TOO HIGH for a shop that KNOWS these cars. Just need to get that out before the flaming starts

Next. Everyone needs to look at the guys website. Assuming this is indeed his place lets point out a few things.

The majority of his gallery contains full on race cars. Porsches, Lotus, the big F word........Ferraris.......... and the like. Yes there is a lonely 356 also. My guess is the guys are used to big wallets that drop 120.00+/hr without question. They are obviously heavily into current computer programmed injection and ignition, so they probably will take longer to work on a set of archaic carbs. They are not used to them, they can do the job, but it will take longer then someone like Jake or Crusty. That said, they will charge you for EVERY minute of their time.
This is not a rip off, or a scam shop, so I feel telling people to avoid them is just wrong. No injustice was done here. William took his car to a shop loaded with " big dog " cars, did not get a written estimate, and in the end the work done was done correctly.

It is good we 914 owners were warned. assumign this shop is like scotty says a high end shop used to facny computer controlled cars and big spening car owners, and assuming the shop know little aboutt he archaic old 914's We should avoid this place at ALL COSTS. this shop is not the place for 914 if they are high priced and know little about fixing 914's the warnign is appropriate and appreciated.

rip off hell yes, the shop owner had you pay for their learning curve on your old archaic 914 if one assumes scottys assumptions are true. that is being maybe too kind to the shop.


now go and complain to the authoritys, the guy ripped you off specially if he said the bill would be below $1000 and it ends up three times that with no commmunitcation that it would go that high

[PeeGreen 914]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) I hope he gets everything straight for you at no additional cost.

[SUNAB914]

Get to know your shop and mechanic before ever putting your car in if it can be helped.

[seebobgo]

I had a simular problem back in 2001 with Don Rosen Porsche in PA. I had the luxury to address the issues with the General Manager and VP, and recieve back some of my money as to what we both agreed was fair for the 1/2 assed work performed. Unfortunetly your dealing with a smaller shop. Bring him back the car and let him know you want the popping fixed, again. Have him itemize the time spent on each task on the bill, along with his hourly rate. Maybe a few of the guys here can chime in and see if the time he spent for each task is reasonable. His parts are about 20% or so higher than should be too. Not too big of a deal, just an observation.

Taking it back next week. Spoke with owner over the phone and told him my issues still existed (decel popping and brake squeal). I shared with him that I was told that in many cases popping is gasket related . His response was "could be muffler related - baffels bad" not getting proper back pressure or something. He did say however that he would make things right. We'll see if he stands by that statement if it cost him time/money. I'm going there with gaskets in hand otherwise it will sit for 3 weeks while he orders parts like the last time. Wish me luck and again thanks for "all" for the advice.

Hold on...these guy's got you once...shame on them...twice, shame on you.
On second thought, I wouldn't go back.

[carr914]

I had this happen to me once at a famous race shop. I had a spyder gear locking pin fail on Sandy's 1971 Jag XJ6. The shaft holding the spyder gears was walking out and smacking the case. I was too busy to work on the car myself so I brought it to these guys. After change U joints, then mounts, then trailing arm bearing. They call me to pick up the car. Still not fixed. Charged to dissamble the car three times for three different repairs and never bothered to check inside the rear cover where the niose was coming from.

Short story, they adjusted the bill to parts and one laber charge and I fixed the car myself.

Even Dealerships do this. Last year I took my Civic to the Dealership to have Timing Belt changed. The Check Engine Light came on after I got home (25Miles)
Took it back, adjustments made, Valves Adjusted, new plugs & wires. Got home, it turned worse, had it towed back. The belt was out a couple of teeth.

The Dealership ended up sending the head out for a valve job, new belt, head gasket and gave me a Rental ( Chevy HHR) on their Dime. I think I put 3K miles on that HHR as I took it to Petit LeMans.

My Civic runs like a Raped Ape again. BTW, it has 350,000 miles on it.

As far as taking your car back, definately let them try to rectify the situation, just let them know Everything is on them And address the original bill.

[Katmanken]

In Ohio, and Florida, you get a phone call for repairs over $300 before they can proceed.

Don't like it, just say no and they are required to put it back together.

Then again Kali may have different laws to protect the strange individuals massing there. Crusty work is excepted.

If Kali had this law, this thread wouldn't happen.