Bee Jay's 914-six Conversion, The car just burned down! Options

['73-914kid]

That red is going to look gorgeous! Hopefully everything goes together smoothly for you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sunglasses.gif)

Just a question though.. Why not use a mill to take the fins down? A giant belt sandy doesn't seem very accurate..

[markb]

Hi Bee Jay! Nice to see you back. That's the kind of conversion I'd like to do for my car. The only problem I would have is the "losing my license because my foot is in it" part. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Cap'n Krusty]

You do have to shave the ribs on the turbo lower covers. You can either take off some right where they interfere, or take some off all the ribbed surface, which is what I do. I just take them to a machine shop that has a surfacing sander (basically a huge industrial belt sander) and have 5/16" taken off.

The problem isn't installing the engine, it's taking the lower covers off for valve adjustments, if you don't remove some material, they won't come off the engine as they hit the inner suspension fastener.

You pay all that money to get valve covers with ribs to prevent them from warping, then you remove the ribs? I guess you kinda expect that from someone who lives in an area where they can't barbecue ribs, either ....................................


Your turn, Perry! The Cap'n

[SLITS]

Damn, I blew it. All I did was surface the stock covers and torque them as I would a head (crisscross pattern) with a in/lb 1/4" drive torque wrench hoping they wouldn't warp.

Oh well, back to square one.

[sixnotfour]

top half

[JmuRiz]

Wow, those refirb'd parts are drool-worthy! Like I had any thoughts they wouldn't be, having seen you car pics over the years...you still have the f-car, you may need to do a comparison.

[Bee Jay]

Perry is modifying my wire harness. He needed to know my gauge configuration. I actually couldn't remember since I haven't driven the car in almost a year. I took the car cover off and took a couple of snap shots tonight.
In the dash I have a combo oil pressure/oil temp gauge with battery and oil pressure idiot lights, the tach, and the speedo. In the console I have fuel, voltmeter, cylinder head temp (useless), and a a/f ratio meter. The a/f meter was very useful in keeping the carbs tuned.
So there you go Perry, my gauge configuration. I guess I need to add a six tach to my list of things I need.
Bee Jay

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[SLITS]

If you use the CIS (and I would), buy and install a popoff valve in the airbox (unless you buy the aluminum one). It will save you a few hundred dollars if it backfires (and it most certainly will).

Get a 150 mph speedometer too! You can easily bury the 120 one.

[Krieger]

Looks like this is going to turn out very nice! I have a friend in the area that has a complete CIS set up for a 3.0. PM me if you are interested. I think he has wanted to get rid of it (sell) for some time. More pics!

[IronHillRestorations]

AFA cutting the ribs off the lower covers, I've never had a warping problem. I kind of rationalized that cutting only part of the ribs might provide more of a chance for warpage, since you won't have the same thickness across the cover.

AFA cutting them down, the surfacing sander does just fine, as .001 precision isn't required. But I don't do it, the machine shop does it. It works fine to surface heads, so I guess it'll do fine for that application, and it's cheaper than having them milled, which I've also done.

If you paint or powder coat them and then take the ribs down, it gives them a nice look, but what do I know? This is just what has worked for me. If it's your engine you do what you like.

Sorry, I don't do ribs Cap'n, wish I could. There's one or two places in TN that know how to cook ribs.

[Bee Jay]

Sorry, I don't do ribs Cap'n, wish I could. There's one or two places in TN that know how to cook ribs.

I've heard about TN barbeque, please send my harness wrapped in it. In exchange, I could send you some Santa Maria style barbeque.
Porsche content: I just got this note from my friend Gill. I must point out that one of my other hobbies is collecting 1/18th die cast cars.

Bee Jay,

I did some research last night. Early 3.0 engines had their cam retarded 6 degrees compared to later ones (like yours). So, don’t mess with the cam timing. Bruce Anderson’s book has a recipe for a nice street 3.0. First, replace the stock exhaust (catalytic converters, etc) with an early (pre-1974) exhaust and muffler. You have effectively done this with the headers you bought. Then, replace the CIS with Weber 40IDA 3C carbs:



· 34mm venturis

· F3 emulsion tubes

· 160 main jets

· 175 air correction jets

· 65 idle jets (you may need to go bigger if you experience lean surge)



You will need a 1978 or 1979 distributor (no vacuum advance) or recurve your 1980 distributor. Buy a distributor rotor with a 6500 rpm rev limiter. The result is a strong engine with a flat torque curve: 210 hp at 6000 rpm, 200 ft-lb at 4500 rpm. These figures come from a dyno pull, not wishful thinking.

If you don’t have a copy of Porsche 911 Performance Handbook by Bruce Anderson, you should buy a copy instead of another 1:18 toy car.

-GILL

[patssle]

I've heard about TN barbeque, please send my harness wrapped in it. In exchange, I could send you some Santa Maria style barbeque.
Porsche content: I just got this note from my friend Gill. I must point out that one of my other hobbies is collecting 1/18th die cast cars.

Bee Jay,
Then, replace the CIS with Weber 40IDA 3C carbs:

· 34mm venturis

· F3 emulsion tubes

· 160 main jets

· 175 air correction jets

· 65 idle jets (you may need to go bigger if you experience lean surge)

I have a 3.0L that I will be converting to 40IDA3C carbs, and I have researched what others are running, here are my findings:

34mm vents
155/160/165 main jets
175/180 air correction jets
55/60/65 idle jets
F26/F3 emulsion tubes

Seems more lean towards the F26 emulsion tubes than the F3s.

[Bee Jay]

This is from another thread that I thought should also be part of this one. Someone is going to be stupid enough, I mean ambitious enough to try this again, and I want to be as much help as possible.
Bee Jay
I pulled my CIS stuff out last night to start cleaning and reassembling. What a mess, old mess at that. Then I went to bed thinking about it. I'm going to need a CIS brain, ($300 no core), a CDI ($300 no core), A CIS fuel pump ($200), a $200-$300 wire harness rework, and whatever else is missing or not working. I'm thinking to heck with it. Just get some carbs, and they look way cooler. I already have a good carb fuel pump (Carter), a good MSD box for ignition, and no Brain or CDI needed. I really wanted fi, but really want to be driving my 914 by next summer, and still have a little gas money. I'm going to have a long conversation with Perry and the Captain, John Larson to see what they think.
Bee Jay

I had a long conversation with Perry this weekend and I visited with John Larson, The Cap'n, last night. John has been working on these cars forever and is a talented and skilled Porsche mechanic. He is well regarded and respected in these parts and I trust him when it come to my Porsche. He really likes the CIS system and knows the 3.0 will run great with CIS. He also says that the 3.0 will run good, not great, but good, with carbs. Perry thinks I should go with carbs because of the expensive parts I don't have yet and the simplicity of the carbs.
Right now I'm leaning toward carbs because of the simplicity of carbs and the flexibility of modifying the engine at some future date. I've had this car since 1996, and I've restored it, broke it, and returned it to service three times now. I've owned my Vette since new in 1979, so you know I will keep this car a long, long, time. This engine may need disassembly for a number of reasons sometime in the near, or far future. If so, I would like to have the flexibility to change the cams, or up the compression, or even change the displacement. I can do all of those with simple adjustments to the carbs, but not so with the CIS. I only met Perry here on the forum recently but after three phone conversations with him, I trust him and he knows a little about six conversions. He may have the carbs I need and he will help me rebuild them and set them up for my stock cammed 3.0. Something I am saving for last because logically it should not even be a part of my decision, but....carbs look so damn good and sexy. Open an engine lid with Webers or PMOs and my heart skips a beat and I start breathing fast. CIS has never done that for me. I already have a Carter carb fuel pump and an MSD box, so I won't have to buy a CIS brain, a CDI ignition, or a CIS fuel pump. I know this was long, but I would like some opinions.
Bee Jay

[markb]

Should you even begin considering the CIS, we have one of the aluminum airboxes here, and would give you a screaming deal to get it out of our hair.

[patssle]

He really likes the CIS system and knows the 3.0 will run great with CIS. He also says that the 3.0 will run good, not great, but good, with carbs.

From everything I've read...the carbs will run just as good as the CIS with a stock cam, and maybe even a little better. Now to get the full effect of carbs you have to change the cam, but leaving it stock will be great.

I'm changing over to carbs from CIS not for performance, but nostalgia, ease of use, and if I put the engine into my 914...no electronics to deal with. And supposibly the engine sounds a lot sexier with carbs.

[JmuRiz]

Good to see others have the same dilemma as I do...engine has CIS, but that does nada for me. My dad and others say carbs, others say EFI (ITBs or 3.2 intake) I change my mind daily. Maybe if I found a deal on some known good carbs I could be swayed one way.

BTW I hear (since I don't know from experience) that you can use 964 cams with CIS pistons + carbs/ITBs with great results. I'll have to do more research on it though.

[Bee Jay]

I think I'm going with carbs. For the flexibility and the simplicity.
+Simplicity: I can work on and tune carbs, a caveman could do it. I'd be totally lost with the CIS.
+Flexibility: If I take this engine apart for any reason in the future, I'd like the flexibility to change cams, compression, or even displacement. I really believe that this will simplify the conversion.
-Cost: This (conversion to carbs) is going to be expensive. I get to use my Carter fuel pump and MSD ignition, so I save money there. But I don't have to buy a CIS brain, CIS fuel pump, or CDI box, so I save money there too. Now I'm looking for carb and manifold deals. Will work for carbs.
Here are some more reasons. I want my engine to look like this. My apologies to the owners of these engines.
Bee Jay
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[EdwardBlume]

Pretty cool Lompoc. My 914 was bought off a VAFB park and sell lot in 1976.

Good luck!

[gothspeed]

I like your logic Bee Jay (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)!!!!!! Your carb decision has pushed me even further towards carbs on my humble 2056 ........ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sunglasses.gif)

Velocity stacks ROCK!!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[Bee Jay]

Pretty cool Lompoc. My 914 was bought off a VAFB park and sell lot in 1976.

Good luck!

Even cooler, I was born in Pleasanton, CA. Well actually on Parks Air Force Base. I drive by the lemon lot on Vandenberg every day to see if there are any good steals.
Bee Jay