OT - Audi S4 and/or A6 2.7 turbo, good, bad ugly... Options

[Gint]

I'm shopping for a new used DD for my wife. I'll get behind the wheel occasionally myself, but it will primarily be her ride. I'm looking at several different cars (all German), but one of them is a 2001-ish Audi S4 with the 2.7 turbo motors. I'm curious about the reliability of this particular platform. Anyone have practical experience with this model? Let's keep this on topic please. I don't need to discuss what other cars I should consider, etc... I know what I want and don't want. Just trying to find out if one of the candidates is reliable or has issues of any kind. Every make/model has it's own particular issues, some are worth dealing with, some aren't. You get the idea... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[ConeDodger]

I'm shopping for a new used DD for my wife. I'll get behind the wheel occasionally myself, but it will primarily be her ride. I'm looking at several different cars (all German), but one of them is a 2001-ish Audi S4 with the 2.7 turbo motors. I'm curious about the reliability of this particular platform. Anyone have practical experience with this model? Let's keep this on topic please. I don't need to discuss what other cars I should consider, etc...

Jcd914 (Jim Dupree) owns one and a Quattro. Before he veered off into computer stuff he was a mechanic at a Porsche Audi BMW place...

[campbellcj]

Mike, I've had a 2000 S4 since around 2002. It has been a great car overall, but as the miles pile-on they can get expensive to maintain. I have a GIAC chip in it and it is a torque monster with the added boost.

You will read stories of people with low-mileage blown turbos, blown clutches and so forth but I believe many or most of them are kids who abuse the crap out of the cars. I don't baby mine and am nearly 150K miles, original turbos and clutch.

[jcd914]

Jcd914 (Jim Dupree) owns one

Well not quite, I own an S4 but is a 1993 S4 w/ 5cyl 20V Turbo engine (Audi's original S4) not the V6 turbo. It is also based on the bigger C platform rather that the B platform the 2001 S4's (and A4's) are built on.

I have worked on and driven a few and they are great driving cars, they are fast and can be reprogrammed to be very fast. I have wanted one for some time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

I have not done any significant work on them but any major work on the engine will be expensive since there is so much crammed into the engine compartment. Replacing turbos is supposed to be a real pain to do and I would believe that.
I have heard of a few oil leak issues with cam covers and chain tensioner gaskets, possibly some ignition coil failures and some turbo failures but nothing about chronic major failures.

My Audi's (I have a 96 A6 as well as the S4) have been rock solid and trouble free until 1 of the coils on the S4 started crapping out under load. I have a few switch and gauge illumination failures and the sunroof on the A6 wigs out once in a while, other than that it is just maintenance.

The biggest concern I would have is the treatment it received from PO's, the S4's are often driven hard and may not have been well care for.

Good Luck
Jim

[gandalf_025]

This is interesting timing..
I brought home a 1999 A4 for my wife to try out as a winter car last Thursday. It isn't a turbo, it is a 6 cylinder auto. This car has a ton of miles on it.. like around 220,000 It runs great and seems rock solid.
I have always heard that this era A4's had Electrical Gremlins and this one seems to be right on in that department. The windows stopped working the day after I gave it to her. Looking at A4 forums, I see that they ask if the windows stopped working during a heavy rain.. Yup.. Supposed to be a relay on the drivers floor that gets wet if the sunroof drains crack. Haven't checked that yet. The alarm and central locking don't work and dash warning lights are on and on and on. Some of these things I can live with considering it is real cheap and I only need it for the winter. She does really like it and if a few things can be fixed, I'll buy it for her. Oh, yeah.. Heated Seats went a LONG way in selling her on the car...

[Gint]

Thanks Chris.

The biggest concern I would have is the treatment it received from PO's, the S4's are often driven hard and may not have been well care for.

Good Luck
Jim

You can tell that from reading some of the ads. I didn't mention that we'd prefer and I'm primarily looking for an avant, so that may limit the kiddie racer PO syndrome... somewhat. I won't buy one that's been jacked with hard. If it's been modified that might be OK if the seller is someone I can read as being reasonably responsible. Thanks for the input.

Heated Seats went a LONG way in selling her on the car...

That won't hurt me either. Going to look at an 01 avant this afternoon that only has 76k on the clock. Looks really clean, but I know all about pictures of cars being deceiving.

Keep'em comin.

[dadaDaveed]

The wife drives a 2001 A6 2.7T Quattro with about 85k on it. Same engine as the S4. It's been a pretty drama free experience. My only complaint is turbo lag. I've heard this can be improved significantly with a performance chip but I haven't experienced it first hand. The engine chip costs around $600, and if you're getting the tiptronic transmission, you should get the "tip chip" too (another $600). AWETuning.com sells them.

For longevity, my advice would be to use a high quality synthetic oil to keep those turbos healthy. If one goes out, you have to replace both, and they're not cheap. (I use Castrol Syntec European formula... make sure it's the one made in Germany). Also, be mindful of the bypass valves... if you're not sure about their condition, just replace 'em. Easy to do and will provide peace of mind that the turbos aren't being overstressed.

Watch for leaky cam tensioner seals. When they leak, they'll drip oil onto your catalytic converter, resulting in an obnoxious burning smell with every cold start up.

If your wife's not used to driving a turbo car, you might want to coach her on the do's and don'ts... particulary, don't dog the engine until it's up to operating temp. Also, don't dog it and put it away hot.

Overall, the 2.7T is a great engine. The bottom end is super strong and with proper maintenance, it'll take you a lot of miles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[dadaDaveed]

Also, watch out for failing pixels on the gauge cluster display. To fix it, you have to replace the entire cluster. ~$800 - $1000 if I recall correctly. The screen might work fine in cold weather, but in the heat, the pixels will fail. It's a widespread problem that Audi likes to pretend doesn't exist.

[Andyrew]

Had my 98 A4 TQM for a while, The KO3 turbo's (on the A4 and the S4) just dont seem to last all that long.. My bearings were still good on mine, BUT the exhaust manifold AND the turbo had a 2" crack through them that I could see light through... It appears it had had a chip for ~ 5 years when I had it..


As for the dead pixels, I have read that a couple of people offer repairs with new/better screens.. www.audizine.com is the biggest.

Front control arms are another issue with Audi's.. They have to be replaced ~ 125k mark.

Driveshaft carrier bearings fail ~ 150k and need to be replaced. HUGE PITA.

Fuel filters are also a PITA but doable.

Keep the electronics out of the weather (keep all the factory sealed electronics, factory sealed) and you should be OK with that..

ABS modules fail, Can be rebuilt, But causes for some "OH SHIT" braking... AKA ABS kicks in barely tapping the brakes leaving you with NO stopping power. ~ 400

Cruise control modules and cruise control switches fail. Some other switches fail as well but are easily replaced.

Clutches are a PITA.. Not as bad as 944's, not as easy as standard RWD..

Timing belts and water pumps every 75k.

Heated seat electronics fail. At least in the A4 models.


However overall, one HELLOVA car for the money.. These are some of the more major issues I have dealt with..

50k on my A4. 30k w/ ARP stage 3 turbo.

[gandalf_025]

As far as pictures being deceiving.
Here are a couple of pictures of the A4 I just brought home. By looking at the car there is no way you would guess it has over 220,000 miles. I'd be paying around 1300.00 for it and am willing to deal with some issues.. I'll buy 4 winter tires, Working Windows would be good and the check engine light out would be nice. The Alarm and locks, I can live without. As long as it gets an Inspection Sticker, I'm all set with it. and the Wife gets to leave her 911 home in really bad weather. If she REALLY likes it, next year I'll look for one with a lot less miles and send this one on it's way.

[Cap'n Krusty]

Why not an A4? That gets rid of the overstuffed engine compartment and the expense that goes with it.

The Cap'n

[campbellcj]

Also, watch out for failing pixels on the gauge cluster display. To fix it, you have to replace the entire cluster. ~$800 - $1000 if I recall correctly. The screen might work fine in cold weather, but in the heat, the pixels will fail. It's a widespread problem that Audi likes to pretend doesn't exist.

Yep, mine started to go out after a few years and now it is all but illegible. I haven't bothered to fix it because the cost outweighs the annoyance.

[Andyrew]

Why not an A4? That gets rid of the overstuffed engine compartment and the expense that goes with it.

The Cap'n

Good suggestion..
A A4 quattro Tip with a 2.8 is a VERY nice car.. Hell for the price you would spend on a S4, you could get a B6 3.0 Tip.. I know the 2.8 V6's go for WELL over 200k miles with just standard maintenance.

[carr914]

I was one of the lead US Test Drivers when they were developing the 2.7, then the V-8. I beat the snot out of them before I got put on the Beetle project where they called me the Bug Killer.

The problem is like most modern VW products, they start nickel & diming you @ about 85,000 miles, except Audi parts are more expensive.

As I remember to do the Timing Belts/Water Pump you really have to take the front bumper cover off, remove the radiator, etc to get where you need to work.

Always thought the S-4 Avant was a cool looking car

[jim912928]

have a 2005 S4 with the 4.2l V8....wicked fast! I love this car, extremely dependable. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat.

[Gint]

I would really prefer an avant. One of the best looking wagons around IMO. And they look better than the sedans.

Why not an A4? That gets rid of the overstuffed engine compartment and the expense that goes with it.

The Cap'n

Various reasons. I've heard the 1.8t has some kind of oil sludge issues? KNow anything about that John? I haven't looked into the A4 much because I'd prefer the larger 6 in this particular car. I wouldn't mind an A4 with the 2.8, but it might be just a tad underpowered for my tastes too. I need to drive one to really evaluate it. And I haven't yet. I will though before it's all said and done.

The car S4 Avant w/6spd I drove today was a nice car. Had the display pixel issue, somethings worn in the front end (slight vib at highway speeds), but otherwise was in fantastic condition. 76k miles and he's asking $13,250. All the money basically. Not that I'd pay that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Since this is primarily for my wife I'd prefer an auto though. So if I'm going to pay all the money the manual probably isn't the right car. She can drive a stick, but... I'd be happier if she was using an auto.

And just an FYI or reminder, we live in the Rockies. Turbos and blowers really help compensate for altitude when you're bombing from home at 5k up to 10k+ in altitude. I'll happily give up a little mileage for some balls.

[campbellcj]

The front suspension does need attention when the bushings and tie-rod ends get worn - the car will feel like it doesn't want to go straight, and you can get weird tire wear (which hurts extra with >$200 tires).

Gratuitous pic of my S4 -

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/farm1.static.flickr.com-21-1289182485.1.jpg)
2000 Audi S4 by cjcam, on Flickr

[Ferg]

Put me in the "not a fan" catagory, I've had this discussion many times over with Greg...

Don't get me wrong, I love concept of the A4 or even S4 on paper, drove one and came away a little dissapointed, (mainly steering and road feel) then started talking to owners whose entire dash went out, head on the 2.7 bi-turbo needed replacing at 70k, and what it takes $ wise to run one and I said no thanks.

Problem is in the sub 10k awd fun to drive catagory, not much available, so I understand the appeal.

[TROJANMAN]

Put me in the "not a fan" catagory, I've had this discussion many times over with Greg...

You like Miatas.............. nuff said


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif)

[Andyrew]

Gint, will this be your car or hers? Honestly, for a reliable get in and drive (Especially in that weather) I would opt for a non turbo.. Oh and the S4 avants are RARE... A4's are much more common, you can easily pick up a VERY nice avant quattro auto for 7k in either a 1.8t or 2.8 vairent.

Couple of examples.
http://www.audizine.com/classifieds/showpr...mods&cat=64

http://www.audizine.com/classifieds/showpr...iles&cat=64


the 1.8t's have oil sludge issues... But only if they havent been kept up with regular oil changes.. I have 175k on my 1.8t, and my problem now is turbo related.. Oil pickup is fine.

To be perfectly honest, the 2.8 tiptronic quattro wagons are a bit of a dog.. But they DO have a good deal of torque..