OT - Audi S4 and/or A6 2.7 turbo, good, bad ugly... Options

[benalishhero]

Most has been covered, but I would add:

Rear strut springs like to break.

Catalytic converter flex pipes will leak at some point.(bosel makes a good flex replacement, if you can weld.)

V/C gaskets leak onto exhaust manifolds.

Turbos will fail prematurely. Look for ripped J and F tubes.

VSV tubes on top of the intake split.

And finally the usual PITA SRS problems........

[Brett W]

Audi says it takes 20 hours to change turbos on one and 30 hours to do an engine R and R. They are a royal pain in the ass to work on with the engine in the car. With and APR stage 3+ kit you will make cray power and torque, but you will have to replace turbos, down pipes, exhaust, ECU, intercoolers, charge piping, etc. It will cost money. I have one in the shop right now getting new RS4 turbos, plumbing, clutch, O2 sensors, ECU, sway bars, brakes, diff bushings, etc. He has the pixelated dash, the interior is nice, but the rubber covered panels scratch easily and they look like ass in a hurry if they don't already. The car rides nicely and handles well. be interesting to see how it drives with all the new upgrades, but it is a nightmare to work on.

Audi dropped the 2.7 engine after one production run and went with a V8 because it is less complicated and more reliable. Audi even acknowledges the V8 is more reliable.

[ghuff]

I love my tropic green 98 A4 1.8T. Would not trade it for an S4.

Why bother with the 2.7t when you can get 500+whp out of a 1.8T at all 4? Torque, sure, but you will just end up breaking more stuff.

[Brett W]

Let's see. 2.7TT:

http://www.goapr.com/includes/img/products...s3_93_clean.gif


vs

1.8T

http://www.goapr.com/products/ts3b5a4plus_power_figures.html



The S4 Kills the 1.8T. Sorry.

[ghuff]

Let's see. 2.7TT:

http://www.goapr.com/includes/img/products...s3_93_clean.gif


vs

1.8T

http://www.goapr.com/products/ts3b5a4plus_power_figures.html



The S4 Kills the 1.8T. Sorry.

APR is garbage. Get off shitty Bosch ECU's, get something better than their crappy log manifolds you will make good power.

I would not even think about doing anything with APR or stock Bosch management after my experience with Motronic tuners and their actual ability to get things right or release a decent product.

That S4 stock has a shitty narrow band ECU.

I will take a 1.8t over a 2.7T any day. Easy to work on, makes more than enough power, enough to destroy the drivetrain. Guys do 600+whp in fwd 1.8T cars, 500-600whp in a B5 is easily possible now. I daily drove and still have a 2001 GTi 1.8T that is easily mid 300whp on a log manifold and a tuner mail order tune with the MAF disabled, running EG feedback only. That is at 1 bar of wastegate pressure from a 3071R, on 93. Nothing at all really, stock internals 100%. Been reliable for 2+ years, beating on it.

Super cheap too, with the money you save you can fix all the B5 problems, the shifter, the trans mount the factory left out that gives the car quattro slop, and the entire other host of issues that plague these things.

You can do enough cheaper with a 1.8T. Doing a 2.7T right involves moving to a single turbo with a lot of fab work anyways, and then to standalone because a narrow band bosch ECU is crap.

[Andyrew]

APR out of the box is WAY conservative.. Im running the non "+" model on my A4 and im hitting those numbers NO problem.

There are plenty of 1.8T guys running well over 500whp on street cars and still getting close to 30mpg. What are the 2.7 guys getting? 22mpg?

But why make this into a pissing match? For the price, the 1.8t makes a great car, But we all know the S4 is a great engine as well.. Just a TON more $$$$

[Gint]

I don't care anything about modding the hell out of this thing. It's going to be the wife's ride anyway. A stock 2.7 turbo or a 2.8 will provide all the power she needs.

Thanks to those that provided constructive input.

[Porcharu]

Not long ago there was an article that showed VW, Audi and BMW were the least reliable cars sold in 2009 or 2010. Porsche was not on the list.

[Gint]

Edited to not sound like such an ass. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

We're talking about 99-2001 model Audis. 09-10 is almost ten years later production.

[0396]

have a 2005 S4 with the 4.2l V8....wicked fast! I love this car, extremely dependable. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat.

Ok I bought a new 2004 S/4 Avant as my DD...fantastic car / wagon.
Yes its a sleeper..it hauls! No real problems - other than the window regulator
that 'happens' to go out - even though I seldom use it!!!

I have a Master Porsche Tech that going to take care of that for me.. ya phone in the Audi part..get a discount and have the tech work on it after hours ..so he can fund his 914 projects. ya I would rather pay him to R& R that while I spend time working on my -6..funny but true...in fact that's going to happen tomorrow.

Back to your question... a AS_ Kicking wagon.

[Gint]

OK, figured this one out. While I would love an S4 and don't have much heartache with the possible issues one could have (since I have a fleet of used cars anyway), I have to remember that I'm not shopping for a car for me to drive around every day.

The A4 with the NA 2.8 would be the perfect car for my wife. In that car even the manual would be fine and I could have some fun with it on those occasions when I drive her car. All I have to do now is find a wagon locally with reasonable miles on it.

Thanks all!

[Andyrew]

Audizine.com
VWVortex.com

[Andyrew]

http://forums.vwvortex.com/forumdisplay.ph...d-RS4-(B5)-Cars

Made it a tad easier for you to navigate Vortex...

[Gint]

Thanks Andrew. I've been a vortrex member for a long time. But it's such a zoo that I only search there to look for issues.

I need to find one locally. I simply don't have the time to schlep across country to buy a car right now.

[Ferg]

I know where you can get a wrecked red sedan with front end damage (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[Gint]

I hope he buys the salvage so we have a parts car available!

[cary]

My big kid has a 2002 2.7T. Big chip. That is some serious grunt.

100k. But we're starting to have a little whine in the turbos. Looks like dad will be pulling the engine and putting in some new turbos and down pipes.
He also has had a couple summers when the interior got real warm. The display between the gauges went a little goofy.

The car is a big heavy pig. But the 350 plus horse power and 400 ft. lbs of torque make it pretty fun to drive. 70 to 120 mph is real nice.

[campbellcj]

The car is a big heavy pig. But the 350 plus horse power and 400 ft. lbs of torque make it pretty fun to drive. 70 to 120 mph is real nice.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) One thing I like about the car is that as long as the turbos are reasonably spooled-up, you can just roll into the throttle at freeway speeds and you're suddenly going 30 or 40mph faster with no drama.

Another fun thing is hammering it in first or second gear in rain or snow, and actually going straight, and forward. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

Mine needs to be replaced sooner or later. That will be a tough choice. I thought about an RS6 (V8 biturbo) briefly but it makes the B5 S4 look cheap and simple to work on in comparison.

[Andyrew]

Chris, Why not step up to a B6/B7 S4? All the power of your B5 without the hastle of the turbo's. Plain and simple, they are awesome cars.

Personally I'd love to get a B6 s4 as a daily.. That v8 is heavenly...



PS I hear you about hammering it in the rain, I love driving mine in the rain!

[cary]

How is the gas mileage? I know when everything hit $4 gallon around here the V8's were cheap.
Plus the fender flares look cool.