Seat stittching - older 914's, Protection - rejuvination Options

[Pat Garvey]

My seats haven't had a full load in several years (it's a 72). The early cars had stititching on the seats, as opposed to moulded seams on the newer cars. Thus far I've had no problems with the stiching, but fear the worst. I, personally , have never encountered a product that REALLY softens the surrounding vinyl Areas, so the stitching remains usable. I worry that the first 6 months of road use will find the stitching causing the vinyl to tear.

Anyone dealing with this?
Pat

[Tom_T]

Geez Pat, I was planning on asking you this same question, due to your chemistry background! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I want to refurb. my OE NLA Beige vinyl & repair the bolster tears with decent older material cuz none of the new stuff matches, which my upholstery is otherwise in excellent condition - so far!

FWIW - I'm having the same problem on the driver seat on my DD 85 BMW 325e too - but not the pass nor rear seats - all the same age, so use seems to affect how pliable they stay.

I guess I await the answer too, on how to re-soften & keep the vinyl pliable.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[tod914]

Would it be possible to reinforce the stitching from the inside with some sort of tape or sealant to take the pressure off the threads? Tents use a type of sealant tape to strengthen the seems. A seam sealant is usally applied as well. So, maybe a product like seam grip from the inside might solve your problem. Be abit of a project, but might work.

[Tom_T]

hat might help the seams Tod, but the vinyl getting stiff over time is the bigger problem, as well as being the danger at the seam stitching (same concern with the later heat-seamed seats BTW).

What's needed is something that can be applied to the vinyl leatherette and basketweave/perforated/etc. to return it's pliability and flexibility so it won't tear at the seams, nor crack & tear at the "field" or open areas between seams, at bolsters, etc.

[Valy]

I've been through the same situation. I have a car that was almost not driven from 1976 till 2010. The vinyl looked perfect but I could tell it was a bit cooked from the sun (there was a small tear in the car cover).
I tried to softener the vinyl many vinyl and leather oils. I even tried facial cream (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
After about 6 months of occasionally driving the car, the vinyl gave up at the seams. Only the plastic cover of the vinyl cracked, leaving the fabric layer intact.
I conclude that adding more support under the vinyl will not help.

I have a relatively rare brown vinyl interior but I was able to identify a replacement material of the same color. I'm going to recover the seats.

[mepstein]

I don't think you can "rejuvinate" vinyl like you can leather. You can protect it from age, sun heat, ect. but not go in reverse. I think it's true of most synthetic products.

ATMO,
Mark

[Pat Garvey]

I don't think you can "rejuvinate" vinyl like you can leather. You can protect it from age, sun heat, ect. but not go in reverse. I think it's true of most synthetic products.

ATMO,
Mark

Mark is correct. Unfortunately.

The plasticizers in early vinyls are nice & supple when new, but "gas-off" as the vinyl is subjected to heat & sun. Hence, the fog on the windows that we used to have. It was a bit slimey & difficult to remove without streaking. Back in the 70's, manufacturers of plasticizers included various forms of organic materials, mostly pthalate compounds, to maintain the suppleness of vinyl compounds. They did the job for a "normal" period of time, but were easily leached from the vinyl with heat. In short, they are almost surely gone from most 914 vinyl interiors - not all, but most.

I really knew the answer to the question I posed originally, but hoped someone may have come up with a solution to restore the suppleness. The threads aren't the problem - it's the vinyl.

"Back in the day", that is the late 70's, Armorall promoted its product (ther was only one then) as the antithises of vinyl degredation. Many of us bought into it. As it turns out (surprise!) the product does nothing, with the exception of providing a slimey/dust magnet surface.

Tip: never, ever use Armorall on your seats! And, never get near an autocross with that crap on your seats! Think seatbelts will save you? Try fresh Armorall on vinyl seats at an autocross.....nail the brakes hard & kiss the pedal cluster! Yep - stupid me. Did it. But that was about 79. Stay away from that product!
Pat

[tod914]

I head good things about a product called 303. Originally used as a protectant for marine applications, the concours guys seem to be using it on rubber/vinyl on their cars. Non slip non gloss product. Might be worth a try.

[Tom_T]

I head good things about a product called 303. Originally used as a protectant for marine applications, the concours guys seem to be using it on rubber/vinyl on their cars. Non slip non gloss product. Might be worth a try.

I've used it on the FG pop-top of my Westy to good effect, but hadn't tried it on my BMW seats at all.

I may try it on the worst crusty parts of the "extra" beige backpad I got to use the better areas to repair my seats (since that color leatherette is NLA & not matchable with newer fabrics out there).

I'll try some applications & see if it works at all & report back later. I also have some Vinylex that I can try.

I can do so in various test areas of the more faded stuff (e.g.: more weather & sun deteriorated areas), as I'll be using the more protected areas behind where the seats sit for my repairs.

Let me know if there are any other treatments worth a test at "Tom's Consumer Reporting"! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

There must be something out there which can rejuvenate & replace the lost plasticizers Pat refers to above, even if organic compounds!?
If my Dad the petro-chemist were still alive, I'd ask him, but alas.....he passed in 12/08!

[tod914]

Tom, vinylex won't do it. It doesn't penetrate the fabric well. There are alot of highend product companies like Griots, Wolfgang, and the list goes on and on that might have some conditioners that would be applicable. Can try their catalogs, can test glyserin, can also google it or try some muscle car forums. I'm sure it's come up there before. Anxious to hear your results.

[Tom_T]

Tom, vinylex won't do it. It doesn't penetrate the fabric well. There are alot of highend product companies like Griots, Wolfgang, and the list goes on and on that might have some conditioners that would be applicable. Can try their catalogs, can test glyserin, can also google it or try some muscle car forums. I'm sure it's come up there before. Anxious to hear your results.

Yeah, I know what you mean - Vinylex seems more like a shiner coating like the old ArmourAll, than a penetrating conditioner product. In fact, that's why I hadn't tried the 303 on the vinyl before.

There's also P21, Einzeit (sp?) & some other products sold by the Porsche suppliers that may be worth a try.

I'm open to anything that works & preserves my existing NLA leatherette/basketweave - otherwise I'm in for an expensive full re-upolstery with something that still won't look like my OE stuff! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[mepstein]

I head good things about a product called 303. Originally used as a protectant for marine applications, the concours guys seem to be using it on rubber/vinyl on their cars. Non slip non gloss product. Might be worth a try.

I've used it on the FG pop-top of my Westy to good effect, but hadn't tried it on my BMW seats at all.

I may try it on the worst crusty parts of the "extra" beige backpad I got to use the better areas to repair my seats (since that color leatherette is NLA & not matchable with newer fabrics out there).

I'll try some applications & see if it works at all & report back later. I also have some Vinylex that I can try.

I can do so in various test areas of the more faded stuff (e.g.: more weather & sun deteriorated areas), as I'll be using the more protected areas behind where the seats sit for my repairs.

Let me know if there are any other treatments worth a test at "Tom's Consumer Reporting"! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

There must be something out there which can rejuvenate & replace the lost plasticizers Pat refers to above, even if organic compounds!?
If my Dad the petro-chemist were still alive, I'd ask him, but alas.....he passed in 12/08!

You want your steak rare and it's already well done - aint goin hapen. Just like Por-15 won't rejuvenate your rusty metal back into shiny steel.

[Tom_T]

You want your steak rare and it's already well done - aint goin hapen. Just like Por-15 won't rejuvenate your rusty metal back into shiny steel.

Actually Mark, we're not talking about bringing T-Rex's skin back from the stone! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Mine is still pretty pliable after sitting in the garage for the past 26 years, mostly being garaged, car-ported & covered for the 10 prior to that that I owned it, 7 for the PO/OO - even where I have the shittage-in-the-back-pocket tear on my D-seat bolster & smaller ones elsewhere from when it was my DD `75-85.



I think Pat's are in similarly good condition, but without my tears to repair (ergo the extra backpad I got in the matching OE leatherette).

I'm just going to test on the other backpad in the worst areas, so I don't f-up the good areas which I need, plus it will be working on something more far-gone, so it should work on a relatively pliable material - if it works on the crud - whatever the treatment is.

Oxidized metal & POR15/etc. are a different animal than plastics/vinyls & leathers due to their organic make-up. Not saying it will work, but something could to keep it pliable so it won't get crispy & tear at the seams, etc.! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Certainly there are well preserved original upholstery 914s out there who've managed to keep their vinyl pliable and in good shape, so that's what we're looking to find.

[Pat Garvey]

Tom, vinylex won't do it. It doesn't penetrate the fabric well. There are alot of highend product companies like Griots, Wolfgang, and the list goes on and on that might have some conditioners that would be applicable. Can try their catalogs, can test glyserin, can also google it or try some muscle car forums. I'm sure it's come up there before. Anxious to hear your results.

I'd be really & pleasantly surprised if glycerin did anything positive. It works really well in rubber items - for preserving them. If the runner part is in bad shape it won't help much, but will extend the life of the part until Mikey makes a new one!

[underthetire]

Just a thought, everything we have that has been soaked in straight mineral oil gets soft. Might want to try soaking a scrap in some to see. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Pat Garvey]

Just a thought, everything we have that has been soaked in straight mineral oil gets soft. Might want to try soaking a scrap in some to see. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Wish I had some scraps! May try it anyway.
Pat

[underthetire]

I'm sure there is plenty of old seats around..

[Tom_T]

Just a thought, everything we have that has been soaked in straight mineral oil gets soft. Might want to try soaking a scrap in some to see. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Wish I had some scraps! May try it anyway.
Pat

Pat, I'll add mineral oil to my experiments with scraps off that extra backpad.

[Pat Garvey]

Just a thought, everything we have that has been soaked in straight mineral oil gets soft. Might want to try soaking a scrap in some to see. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Wish I had some scraps! May try it anyway.
Pat

Pat, I'll add mineral oil to my experiments with scraps off that extra backpad.

Thanks Tom - I'll be surprised if it does any good along the seams, but it's worth a shot.
Pat

[Pat Garvey]

I'm sure there is plenty of old seats around..

Jeff,
The last thing I need is another piece of crap around here. My wife's always been supportive, but I suspect she is near the end of her rope! Case in point - I bought a package of 4 yellow top injectors (which I have no use for), with all rubber pieces (new) and 4 new elbows for under $22. Could care less if theinjectors work, though chances are 50% that Witchcraft can make them work. The only thing I needed was the injector elbows (new), so the rest went into a bucet of "will sell someday". My garage and basement are so sull of mostly new parts for a 914 that isn't running (but should be) that if I brought a raggety seat here I think she may explode!

She's been very supportive for well over 40 years, but if I don't get Fritz on the road soon she may have me committed.
Pat