How Much Would You Pay for Dunlop SP57 Repops?, Possible source to reproduce 165HR15 Options

[Tom_T]

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I've been otherwise detained for awhile, but am hoping a few more of you will weigh in on interest in getting these OEM Repops from Dunlop in the 165HR15 Tubeless SP57s as factory spec'ed on the 914-6 & 914-2.0 models for 70-76 MYs.

After another week or so, then I'll recontact the supplier to see if it's enough demand to convince Dunlop's UK retro tires plant to start producing a run of these.

Any ideas of how to get a similar poll in front of the 911 folks on which these were also spec'ed? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

IIRC the 911T's & L's & E's used HRs (S's used VRs) & 76 912E's too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

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[Tom_T]

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Oh..... & don't forget to vote for both price range & quantity on the poll! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

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[Tom_T]

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Jim - here's the poll.

Any more votes?
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[Derek Seymour]

I would not buy any nor do I think they are worth shit. Why go back in time if you crave performance?

That being said the Concours market is getting bigger by the day. These would be a big hit for any 911, 912 and 914 Concours owner.

I hope it gets done.

D

[Tom_T]

I would not buy any nor do I think they are worth shit. Why go back in time if you crave performance?

That being said the Concours market is getting bigger by the day. These would be a big hit for any 911, 912 and 914 Concours owner.

I hope it gets done.

D

Actually Derek they are worth shit - even today for the best balance of handling & good mpg - these Dunlop SP57 were excellent tires in 165HR15.

If we could still get Semperit M201 &/or M401 tires, then those would be equally as good, but they were about 50-60% less than SP57s back in the day, & were also factory issue along with Conti's & Michi's.

Even for DD - everything doesn't have to be big low profile fatties on bigger rims to have a blast driving a 914! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
.... but this was more applicable to the CW users, depending on the price.

Thanx for you support of the cause though! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

.

FYI ALL - I still need to get to some of the other 911/912/930 & other marques' user sites to get an interest level from them, before I go back to see if this distributor can convince Dunlop to add these to their vintage tire runs. I've just been buried lately!

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Chris Pincetich]

I am loving my current Dunlop Star Spec street tires for cruising and AX racing. My 914 had Dunlops when I bought it, they were pretty sticky too. I would like to see the repro done with the Star Spec sticky rubber. They claim 200 wear rating, but I have heard more experienced racers say this is way off, they are stickier than all other 200s.
Good luck w this! I voted (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Tom_T]

I am loving my current Dunlop Star Spec street tires for cruising and AX racing. My 914 had Dunlops when I bought it, they were pretty sticky too. I would like to see the repro done with the Star Spec sticky rubber. They claim 200 wear rating, but I have heard more experienced racers say this is way off, they are stickier than all other 200s.
Good luck w this! I voted (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Thanx Chris!

Even the 1970's SP57 rubber was super sticky & very soft! It's main problem was that the rubber was so soft & sticky that you were lucky to get 10-12k out of them!

Those Semperits which I mentioned tested just behind the SP57 & VERY close in performance, and way ahead of the Conti's & Michelins which came on 914s, & were also almost as good as Pirellis of the day. Howver, the Sempi's easily got you 20-30+k miles out of a tire. Tread pattern was similar too the SP57 too -


And for those ready to ask - no Semperit won't make any vintage tires cuz they're strictly Europe now and they only do mainstream tires - typically very good tires at a very competitive price. So that formula leaves out vintage markets! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) .... any more votes? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[Tom_T]

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[billh1963]

So, any new updates? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[Tom_T]

Not yet Bill.

I guess I'll need to find a way to poll interest from 911/912 types as well as the other makes from the 60's-70's that used them, in order to get the numbers up for adequate volume.

Also, the poll shows that the CSOBs on here are real dreamers who are willing to pay more for 205+ "modern" tires when 80% want them for less than $150 (40% less than $100), or for AX & track tires - than they'll for period correct sticky 165s! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I mean really!!?? ....REALLY!!?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)
.... those SP57 tires were $50 +/- apiece in the 70's, which with inflation equates to about $400+ a pop - about the same price as the 185/75VR15 Michi XWX tires from the M471 package cost today from Lucas, Coker, etc.! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Possibly the same ones who complain that the $105 Vredesteins are crap, or will "settle" for $200+ 165HR15 Michi XZX, or will pay $275 for tube type 165HR15 XAS!

I found the lack of willingness to pay for good tires a bit disappointed from this group of "enthusiasts".

I have too many irons in the fire right now to run it down, but hope to later this year or make it a new year resolution! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Trekkor]

There are many choices available in 185/60/15, which are similar in size to what was the OEM issued tire.

They are all around $100 a piece.

BFGoodrich
Bridgestone
Continental
Dunlop
Firestone
General
Goodyear
Hankook
Kumho
Michelin
Pirelli
Sumitomo
Yokohama

All listed on TireRack.com

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...F&tab=Sizes


KT

[Trekkor]

As a side point, I don't know that you can reliably compare modern tires, today's treadwear ratings and prices with what was available 40 years ago.


KT

[Tom_T]

There are many choices available in 185/60/15, which are similar in size to what was the OEM issued tire.

They are all around $100 a piece.

BFGoodrich
Bridgestone
Continental
Dunlop
Firestone
General
Goodyear
Hankook
Kumho
Michelin
Pirelli
Sumitomo
Yokohama

All listed on TireRack.com

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...F&tab=Sizes


KT

KT -

That is not a very good replacement size alternative, since 185/60xR15 has a relatively large speedo/odo error of 6.5%, 185/70R15 is the closest to 165(/80)R15 at 0.8% & 185/75R15 is next at 2.1%, & even the 195/65R15 is closer at only 1.6% & were the Porsche AG recommended replacement size.

See Tire size calculator here:
http://www.914world.com/specs/tirecalc.php

>>>>

This poll's purpose is to gauge the interest in those interested in getting a repop production by Dunlop's vintage tires division in the UK, of the OE tires on many of our 914s (914-6, 914-2.0, 914-1.8) & other cars of that vintage which used their excellent 165HR15 SP57 tires. It's not meant to discuss general non-original tire size options on here.

But do be careful with some of those brands you've listed, because many are now using inferior rubber, as I've found out with some fairly new `08 tires for my 85 BMW 325e with <12k miles on them since mid-`08 already having severe sidewall & in-tread cracking already, while the `02 spare is still perfect! China is again passing off crappy materials on the unsuspecting world market - now with crappy rubber in tires! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

There is a full discussion of tires sizes at the Originality & History Forum's "Tires & Wheels" nailed thread FYI.

[tod914]

That tire is a tough sell Tom. The % of people doing like delivered restos are few and far between. The more modern options, with better grip and size choices make buying a vintage tire hard to justify at any cost. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for seeing them reproduced.
Checkout Longstone tires. Many more choices than what Coker offers. My car came with the XZ, so I settled for the XZX repop from Longstone. I like the looks and it performs reasonably well. It uses modern compounds which is a plus.

[Tom_T]

As a side point, I don't know that you can reliably compare modern tires, today's treadwear ratings and prices with what was available 40 years ago.


KT

KT - modern repops are made by the respective vintage tire divisions - Dunlop, Michelin, Pirelli & Vredestein, etc. - with modern rubber, and since they're limited run for the car collectors - they'd be higher priced than new/current tires in mass production anyway, due to the latter's larger number of millions of tires to amortize across, vs. a few thousands of vintage repops.

If Dunlop's new synthetic rubber materials do have supeior wear - relative to the relatively soft & sticky 1960-70's SP57's rubber, then that may cure the SP57's one significant fault - usually getting only 10-20k miles out of a tires, vs. 30-40k+ form their competitors.

Back then the Semperit M401/M266 tires with similar dog-bone tread design had almost equal performance as judged by the auto mags. back then - but with 30-40k tread life, & they were one of the 914 OEM suppliers of tires on many new 914s. So that's actually what was on my 73 914-2.0 spare from new, & what I used back then.

But Semperit is not interested in producing any of their vintage tires at all, whereas the others will & do.

I don't think that DOT requires "new ratings" be made available for repop vintage tires form the original tooling, so these would be marked as originally, as are the Michelins, Pirelli's, other Dunlops, etc. found at Coker Tire's, Lucas Tire's, Universal Tires, & the other vintage tire sellers' websites.

[Trekkor]

It would be fun to know what percentage of current 914 owners are running on OEM sized tires.


Interesting project.


Have fun!


KT

[Tom_T]

That tire is a tough sell Tom. The % of people doing like delivered restos are few and far between. The more modern options, with better grip and size choices make buying a vintage tire hard to justify at any cost. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for seeing them reproduced.
Checkout Longstone tires. Many more choices than what Coker offers. My car came with the XZ, so I settled for the XZX repop from Longstone. I like the looks and it performs reasonably well. It uses modern compounds which is a plus.

Tod,

I agree with you on the limited market, which is why I'll need to go to the 911/912/912E crowd, BMW, MG, Alpha, Jag & other makes of the period to get enough of us CW nuts to convince Dunlop to do these. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I've been to Longstone, & Lucas that I noted above is their USA distributor - so anything on Longstone's website, Lucas can order for you.

The XZX is a SR rated tubeless - 165SR15 - as used on the 914/4 & 914-1.7 models by Porsche's spec. & ran about $200 each IIRC.

Whereas, the Michi XAS is 165HR15, but it's a tube type & ran $275 each + $35 per tube = $310 each IIRC, which is the correct HR speed rating for the 914-6 & 914-2.0 (1.8 I believe too?), but it's a problem to mount a tube tire on tubeless type rims, according to the tire store experts.

The tubeless but soft sidewalled Vredestein 165HR15 Sport Plus are about $115 now I think, with more of a contiunuous zig-zag tread pattern found on 70's passenger cars & 1950-60's Brit sports cars, & they weren't a USA OEM supplier in the 1970's - so that's a few things against them.

IIRC we went through all these options when you were hunting tires for your prior `73 Bahia Red 914-2.0's resto.?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)