SOT: The truth about Corvair engines, Nothing but the facts and experience, please Options

[Tom_T]

Corvairs are cool as shit cars. After Mike showed me the resources that are nearby for them he made me a convert. I want to build one in a bad way. Either just a motor or the full car. Triple Webers, 3.1L, headers, fucking awesome.

Zach

I've loved them since Grade & HS in the 60's! My Great Aunt used to let me drive her 63 Monza that she got new - White with Blue interior - around Pittsburgh area back in the day.

The 67-68 180 HP Turbo-Corsa 4 spd. Convertable in the metallic blue with those wide white hood/trunk "stripes"/areas like the Malibu SS396's came with, & an ivory interior - down the street in San Diego was my fav! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

..... but you'd be far better off Zach building it in the best way! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Gearhead1432]

I would like to know what a converted engine would weigh. I do know that the stock flywheel as well as the bellhousing are a heavy combination that is not needed in a 914. I have only seen Bill Fisher mention that it is "75lbs" heavier than a 1600 T1 VW.

Also, Bill Fisher's book "How to Hotrod Corvair Engines" has some good information on VW and Porsche conversions.

-Rob

[Smitty911]

Dr. Evil,

Thanks for bringing some Truth to the topic.

I've been thinking about more HP for my '74 2.0.

Looking at Raby 2270 Kit, somewhere around $10,000

$7,100 for Kit
$1,500 for SDS-EFI
$1,500 for Tangerine Header
++++++++++

Porsche Flat 6
Core ?
Rebuitd ?
Carbs, or Trottle Bodies?
Oil Tank?
Etc etc.

$10,000 - $15,000???

Subaru
Motor Low Miles $2,500
Header ?
Mounts?
Cutting up body and running water lines?
++++++

I checked a couple of the links you provided and a Complete Airfilter to Oil Pan $3,000ish
Mount?

Hmmmm, leaning, Leaning, LEANing, LEANING - I have to do some more research but damn that's going to be hard to beat.

Add that I can drop the 2.0 set it aside and just possible use a new motor mount and swap it back in needed.

Hmmm.

Smitty

[Dr Evil]

I dont know the weight. It may be in the repair manual, but I dont know if it is dry, stripped to the long block or what.

The bell housing is light aluminum, but not need in the 914, as stated.

$3000 is for one that you pay for most of the work or buy the fancy 3.1 parts. I did the 3.1 by buying the parts and having them machined for me.

[Dr Evil]

Here is a link to an auction from Larry's corvair for just the pistons and cylinders. Too expensive, you can do it local and buy the parts yourself for much less.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CORVAIR-VW-...sQ5fAccessories

[Dr Evil]

One from Starrcooke for less, but lower displacement. Comes with rods (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Not as bad.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Corvair-VW-...sQ5fAccessories

[Dr Evil]

Clutch and adapter for $400. This is about the right price. Not bad.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Corvair-Eng...sQ5fAccessories

[Dr Evil]

Holy crap, a twin turbo vair engine starting at $1500
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Corvair-Twi...sQ5fAccessories

I think I am making my point (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[KaptKaos]

Corvairs are cool as shit cars. After Mike showed me the resources that are nearby for them he made me a convert. I want to build one in a bad way. Either just a motor or the full car. Triple Webers, 3.1L, headers, fucking awesome.

Zach

True that. I have a serious jones for an LM coupe 4-spd. I'd take a 110 or a 140.

[Lou W]

Sooo, then is this 63 convertable with no engine or tranny worth anything?

[silver74insocal]

yep worthless..give me 50 bucks and i will haul it away for you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[Gearhead1432]

Looking at data from the pelican forum and the corvair center, the corvair engine converted should weigh approximately the same as a 2.0 TIV or even less.

That is ~321 lbs for the 2.0 vs ~284 lbs for a VW converted 110hp Corvair engine. A complete 110hp engine was weighed at 312lbs and that includes the flywheel, bell housing, complete exhaust system, and all other accessories.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/914/technical_..._tech_specs.htm

http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.php?1,258166

[Eric_Shea]

Nothing but the facts and experience, please

There's little fairies that open the intake plenum and sprinkle magic dust over the distributors to make them run backward.

fucking awesome

Oh my, the new admin boy was caught cursing... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

[scotty b]

WORST ENGINE EVER !!

[zymurgist]

Looking at data from the pelican forum and the corvair center, the corvair engine converted should weigh approximately the same as a 2.0 TIV or even less.

That is ~321 lbs for the 2.0 vs ~284 lbs for a VW converted 110hp Corvair engine. A complete 110hp engine was weighed at 312lbs and that includes the flywheel, bell housing, complete exhaust system, and all other accessories.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/914/technical_..._tech_specs.htm

http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.php?1,258166

A quick search turned up a value of 440 pounds for a Porsche 3.0 engine.
http://www.dennigcars.com/Model_pages_en/9...g_targa_eng.htm

[Dr Evil]

3.0 has two over head cams and related hardware to drive them/house them, big oil pump, etc. So, that number makes sense.

Also, more oil for the 3.0. The 3.0 is a bad ass motor, but heavier.

[jk76.914]

Nice summary- I offer a couple of clarifications-

The main divide in the corvair engine line took place in 1965 when the displacement of the engine was moved to 2.7L and was offered in a NA 110HP, NA140HP, turbo 150HP and turbo 180HP. The only differences in the long block between these engines are the nitrided crank found in all but the 110HP, and the heads: 110 had one single barrel on each head, the 140 had 2 with one acting as primary and one as secondary. The turbos had a single barrel blow through setup.

The heads are the major limiting factor in the design. They are not built in an intuitive way and rob much hp. The 140 head had bigger valves, but like its 2.0L TIV analog, would drop valve seats due to the limited amount of material between the seats in the head, and the inability of larger seats to shed heat as well as smaller seats. This can, and has been overcome by those who have been rebuilding these heads fro decades by making sure the crush tolerance on the seats are correct, and staking the seats in place.

Currently, you can get a set of rebuilt, 140hp larger valved heads, with new hardware and no core for about $1200 from Corvair Ranch in Gettysburg, PA. I bought a set that was rebuilt and had the plenums taken off for tri porting for $1500 shipped off of ebay from Starr Cooke in El Cajon, CA, another well known Corvair entity.

One of the cool things that many ACVW folks like is that the corvair engine has stock hydraulic lifters on it that use standard lifter, push rod, and rocker parts from Chevy. Easy and cheap to obtain.

Another great feature that I like over ACVW is the box design on the case. The top and bottom come off and allow for any maintenance. Swapping rods, bearings, what ever, is easy.

The original 1960 was 140 cu.in. '61-63 they went to 145 with a bore increase, and the move to 164 (2.7L) was a stroke increase in '64, not '65. If you're building a '64 engine, there are some cylinder barrel and head differences from '65 and up that you need to know about...

There was also a base engine, 95 hp, below the 110 for all years. It used the non-nitrided crank along with the 110hp. But even in this form, it was forged steel, not cast.

The turbo came out in 1962 at 150 hp. And didn't go to 180 hp until '65. The '64 turbo was still rated at 150 hp even though it was on the bigger 164 cu. in. engine. All turbos were draw-through, not blow-through, single barrel Carter YH side draft carbs. Interestingly, three of these carbs were used on the original 1953 Corvette blue flame six. There was significant turbo lag. Chevy really simplified the installation though, by using a pressure retard on the distributor instead of a vacuum advance. Static timing was 24 degrees BTDC, which advanced centrifugally and then retarded under pressure. My own '63 Sypder convertible started showing positive boost at around 2500 rpm, and topped out at 10 PSI (20" Hg) by maybe 4200. I actually liked the turbo lag. For freeway passing, you could feel yourself pressing into the seat as the vac/pressure guage climbed above zero.

I don't recall any issues with dropped seats except with the big valve 140 heads.

Lifters and rockers were based on Chevy desings, but different. Pushrods were unique as they have a side bleed hole to lubricate the rocker boxes. This is necessary because the hydraulic lifters operate with zero lash, which shuts off much of the oil flow to the head. I actually am running Corvair pushrods in my T4 hydro engine for that reason- stock length fit perfecdt!

My own three Corvairs (110hp-'64, 140hp- '65, and 150 hp- '63) were indestructible, I'm convinced. Totally reliable, easy to maintain, and on and on.

[Don M]

This really is a great direction if you are thnking about a swap for your teener, a few posts back the name Starr Cooke popped up, he'd be a wealth of info on this subject I think GM contacts him for info when necessary (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)... although Dr Evil appears to be well informed on these things.

As I said earlier I have had years of experience with these engines as well, mostly in the area of sand cars very little in streetable form. Most of the people I delt with were after the big HP numbers so big bore, stroke and related periferal work was the norm. Like Dr Evil and others have said reverse rotation is really the only consideration it must be part of any project unless some other compatable drive train is employed, just remember to select the proper (most likely straight) directional fan at the time.

[GS Guy]

Great thread Doc!

The big limitation in the cylinder heads is exhaust flow, not so much with the intake. I've been told by some very knowlegible Corvair hot rodders that the stock 140 2-port intakes can flow more than enogh for what the stock exhaust ports can get out. The problem is the location of the pushrods, causing the T4 style exhaust stub pipes to be smaller and "kinked" a little to clear. The solution is an angle port conversion where the direction of the exhaust is directed away from the pushrods and made larger - that uncorks the head for any serious intake modifications - like the yummy 3bbl Weber converion!

Couple of other links of interest:
American Pi - some very nice high-end (and expensive!) 'Vair hardware
http://www.american-pi.com/corvair/corvhome.html

Rear Engine Specialists - been into hot-rod Corvairs for a loooooong time:
http://rearenginespecialists.objectis.net/...-21.5546474873/

Fellow buggy guy with some trick Corvair EFI hardware:
http://www.blackhawkengr.com/

and here's a good youtube of a tricked out 'Vair engine with lots of goodies running:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzicgyjY12E...feature=related

[914coop]

Had two Corvair powered vesicles.

A VW framed dune buggy that the previous owner had welded in the transaxle and engine into the VW pan, Not pretty bit worked. Main problem with it was that it did not have enough weight in the front. If you floored it and the rear tires actually griped the front end would come off the ground which was cool, however if you got caught in the rain it would not steer which was not cool. Ended up welding large chucks of metal to weight down the front.

Also had a late 60's Corvair that I loved, however if you used the recommended grease in the front wheel bearing the wheels did not like to turn on snow covered streets and the cold winter. Got the car with rust problem and it was it's final demise as I was young and it was my only car.

Both power plant preformed great and gave me no issues. The only issue I had was with a choke linkage that jept falling off for some reason, just jept spares in the glove box..

Never entered my mind about using one of these engines in a 914. Been starting to look for a 911 power plant but may need to consider this if I can do it with out to much customization to the car. better with nuts amd bolts then welding and body work.