bigger wheel-side CVs... without 5 lugs?, Can someone give me a recipe? Options

[thenewwazoo]

My head is swimming after spending hours reading post after post, but I still can't figure out if there's a solution that will let me use a bigger CV on the wheel side and not convert to a 5-lug setup. Is there any other stub axle that will press into the stock 914 wheel hub or does anyone sell an adapter?

[pcar916]

It is a bit bewildering to get all of the bits into your head at first.

If the spline-count of the /4 stub axle (and hub) is the same as the spline-count of the /6 stub, it's the same as the early 911 hubs and the 944 hubs then you're in business with your /4 hubs. In that case, you can use 944 stubs with the required 3/16in spacer, or even SC stubs as is. Both let you use 100mm 944 cv's when you modify your axles to use them, or get new aftermarket axles i.e. SwayAway.

The 930 stubs (no spacer) work as well and give you 108mm cv's, which are cheap and plentiful in the off-road market, but you'd have to use modified 914/6 axles (or custom) and course-splined transaxle flanges.

The 108's have a huge deflection angle, which is why the offroad folks like 'em, but they weigh a ton. I weighed all of those parts years ago and the 108's were something like 5-7 pounds (IIRC) per axle assembly heavier than the 944 assembly.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

[jimkelly]

i think part of the answer is here??

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=80641

i would think going with bigger cv's on both ends would be best.

(( removed wrong info ))

jim

[sixnotfour]

-4 splines are not the same as -6 splines and 911 and 944

Just have some 5 lug flanges drill for 4 lug.

[thenewwazoo]

Excellent, thanks guys for the info. So basically it sounds like the answer to my base question is "no" - I've got to have 5-lug bits on both sides to make big CVs work. Darn.

Anyone interested in a kit to convert to 5x114.3 or 5x100 in the rear? =D

[sixnotfour]

I just did some 5 x 120.65 . not a big deal.

[Dave_Darling]

Pelican sells a Renegade setup that uses larger CVs, with adaptors. I have heard rumors that they may be Bus CVs, but I don't really know.

--DD

[thenewwazoo]

Pelican sells a Renegade setup that uses larger CVs, with adaptors. I have heard rumors that they may be Bus CVs, but I don't really know.

--DD

Yeah, I considered those, but $600+ for some axles that I'll only be using the outside half of is a bit dear for my budget. It's too bad nobody sells the components individually.

[jimkelly]

i guess you would not need to do anything on the trans side if you did not want to but on the wheel side..
1-you'd need machine the stock 914 axle
2-get a 944 cv
3-get a 911 stub axle
4-get a 911 hub
5-machine the 5 lug hub to 4 lug.

doing outside only would save you from needing to...
1-machine the trans side of the axle
2-get a 911 trans output stub
3-get a second 944 cv

why would you want to only strengthen the wheel side?

jim

[thenewwazoo]

why would you want to only strengthen the wheel side?

jim

I'm putting together an admittedly weird Subaru application using inner CVs that match the transaxle. Basically, if it was easier to use Porsche parts (read: not cost me the hard parts plus new wheel$ plus new tires), I'd just do that, but my anticipated power levels will break stock CVs at half-throttle. And if I've gotta have anything custom made, it might as well be just axles and not axles and a bunch of other stuff too. Or, obviously, do as you mentioned and drill the 5-lug hubs, but that'd kinda ruin them. Anyway, it just seems messier than my plans.

[jaxdream]

Get some one to machine adapters that fit the 914 wheel stub axle end to step up to bigger cv's , custom axles to the spline count and the length needed to fit the bigger cv with the adapter thickness .This maybe your best bet to keep from getting wheels, tires and hubs / stubs and new rear wheel bearings .Removing the rear wheel hubs destroys the bearings .You can remove the stub axle which attatches to the cv without removing the wheel hub. Good luck.

Jack / Jaxdream

[Dave_Darling]

If the Scooby axles are the same length or a bit shorter than the 914 ones, then just have someone machine adaptors for the Scooby CV joints to the output flange and stub. OK, the output flange one would be more a "spacer" and less an "adaptor", but close enough. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

If the Scooby CVs are too long, you may have to get custom axle shafts made. The adaptor on the outer side may still be a good way to go, as you can have a decent idea that the Scoob CVs will hold up to the power the engine can dish out.

--DD

[TorqueJunkie]

I am trying to convert my 914/4 axles to use the 100mm bus cv joints as well, but am having issues getting the correct stub axles and rear hub. I was told the sc stub axles goes right in the 914/4 hub, but it is not true the SC has coarse splines so will not fit. I wonder if what i need is the 911 rear hub.

FYI: the bus cv joints fit right on the 914/4 axles and the SC stub axles, the only machining that is necessary for this to work is the transmission flanges need welded up and redrilled and machined for 100mm cv joint pattern.

Guess i need to find some 911 rear hubs and see what the differences are from the 914 ones...

[stock93]

I have personally tried the 944 stubs and they don't fit. The splines are different. And yes, I did try the late stubs. The early ones are the same as a VW bus except with a type2/4 cv pattern on them. I'm thinking adapters look like they are going to be the best route. I wonder if they will need to be hardened to survive or if just using a decent tool steel would be enough.

[Andyrew]

Out of curiosity, what is your goal? You running a v8 and want to stay 4 lug or something?

EDIT: saw that you were running a Subi setup.

New CV's are pretty strong. Stronger than what they are claimed to be rated at (250lbs of tq).
What is your anticipated power levels? 4 cylinder applications have less tq than v8 applications and the tq is applied in a different fashion, which puts even less stress on the cv's... How much HP and TQ are you anticipating running?

[BIGKAT_83]

Patrick Motorsports makes these adapters for the larger 108mm CV joints. They sell for $188 a set.


Bob

[thenewwazoo]

Out of curiosity, what is your goal? You running a v8 and want to stay 4 lug or something?

EDIT: saw that you were running a Subi setup.

New CV's are pretty strong. Stronger than what they are claimed to be rated at (250lbs of tq).
What is your anticipated power levels? 4 cylinder applications have less tq than v8 applications and the tq is applied in a different fashion, which puts even less stress on the cv's... How much HP and TQ are you anticipating running?

I'm putting in a 3L suby six (EZ30D) to start, probably turbos later. It think it'd be fair to call it 250/250. I was okay with my tires being the weak point, because I can always use less throttle, but I want some margin for safety on the CVs. Mostly I'm the cheapest SOB what ever owned a Porsche and don't want to have to drop the cost of the entire car on a 5-lug setup.

Patrick Motorsports makes these adapters for the larger 108mm CV joints. They sell for $188 a set.

Bob

I saw that when I was first looking, but the page for that part only refers to adapting 901 "transmission joint output", and then talks about needing 911 spline wheel flanges. I guess since the CVs are the same on both sides it'd work, right? This may be an even cheaper option than my current plan! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Thanks!

[BIGKAT_83]

Out of curiosity, what is your goal? You running a v8 and want to stay 4 lug or something?

EDIT: saw that you were running a Subi setup.

New CV's are pretty strong. Stronger than what they are claimed to be rated at (250lbs of tq).
What is your anticipated power levels? 4 cylinder applications have less tq than v8 applications and the tq is applied in a different fashion, which puts even less stress on the cv's... How much HP and TQ are you anticipating running?

I'm putting in a 3L suby six (EZ30D) to start, probably turbos later. It think it'd be fair to call it 250/250. I was okay with my tires being the weak point, because I can always use less throttle, but I want some margin for safety on the CVs. Mostly I'm the cheapest SOB what ever owned a Porsche and don't want to have to drop the cost of the entire car on a 5-lug setup.

Patrick Motorsports makes these adapters for the larger 108mm CV joints. They sell for $188 a set.

Bob

I saw that when I was first looking, but the page for that part only refers to adapting 901 "transmission joint output", and then talks about needing 911 spline wheel flanges. I guess since the CVs are the same on both sides it'd work, right? This may be an even cheaper option than my current plan! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Thanks!

Right it will work with both the drive end and the wheels end. They will add 5/8" to the total length of the axle.

EZ30D.... I'm working with one of those now. I was just out at outfront last month and they had Turbo exhaust headers for these in stock. I got some exhaust flanges for mine. It really suprized me that they had them.


Bob

[thenewwazoo]

Right it will work with both the drive end and the wheels end. They will add 5/8" to the total length of the axle.

EZ30D.... I'm working with one of those now. I was just out at outfront last month and they had Turbo exhaust headers for these in stock. I got some exhaust flanges for mine. It really suprized me that they had them.


Bob

Awesome, Bob, thanks for the extremely useful insight. So it sounds like the suby inner CV (cheap), a set of custom axle shafts ($300?), a set of 108mm outer CVs ($150) and these adapters ($190) are one possible solution for my specific problem, and they definitely answer the original question.

[Andyrew]

I would run stock new CV's until it breaks or until you get turbo's.

250/250 is NOT going to break brand new CV's. This will spread out the costs, as you will probably want to go with 5 lug later on.

Good luck, and again, there are a bunch of 6 guys that run with stock CV's, and a bunch of v8 guys that run them as well for years.

That being said, those patrick adapters are pretty cool