Getting Started, is the 914 the right car?, Lurker finally speaks and asks questions. Options

[rmousir]

Hey all,

I've been lurking for a couple weeks now reading all of these interesting topics and enjoying those threads where you folks are kind enough to share your builds. I am a car fan in general with a '66 mustang that I am just about ready to put on the road for the summer. Like any other project there is always more to do but I am ready to start looking for another project and I have a real fondness for the 914 and its unique looks. I like that it is both a coop and a convertible with the targa roof. I like the style and the unique look of the car. I love that you can't find one on every corner. It seems to be a very simple set up as far as working on it goes.

With that said I have some questions for anyone that would like to comment.

1. What kind of costs would a 914 project take? What I mean is that I am used to the costs associated with a classic Mustang. This a Porsche after all and I can just imagine parts and items being 3x as much as I might be used. The associated costs of parts might very well make this a no go.

2. I really like the idea that these 914s can handle pretty well and even do double duty as a driver and a weekend racer. Although I don't have plans for that sort of thing, I like the idea that if I chose a 914 could easily do this. From what I have seen on this site many folks put in a different motor. Why is that? Is there something wrong with the stock motors to where one can not get power out of it?

3. Availability of parts. Nothing sucks more than being close to finishing something up and not being able to get a part. Is that the case with 914s?

4. Are there any part supplier catalogs that I could order (free hopefully) to take a look and see what can and can't be gotten for these cars and the costs? This could be a big help with question 3.

5. What are the basic restore/mod projects (sway bars is one I read about) for a 914 to bring it up to modern day par? You know the 'if you have one you should do this this and that first thing.


The other project cars on my radar are: Miata (I know its not old), VW Super Beetle, Triumph TR-6, Datsun 510, Datsun 240z, and Alfa Spyder.

Anything else I should know or be aware of if I decide to jump in to another project with a 914? I appreciate your time and all comments and suggestions.

Thanks very much.

[smontanaro]

I like that it is both a coop and a convertible with the targa roof.

Welcome. I'm sure there are a number of 914s around which have chickens roosting in them. I'll leave it for others to answer your questions in a more serious manner. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Andyrew]

Let me answer question #2.

As someone who converted to a sbc and has no intention to putting a porsche engine in their car the reason is simple. Cost. To rebuild the T4 engine correctly is ~ 5k, sure you can do a low dollar rebuild and get it on the road, but 5k gives you a good 125 or so Hp engine which feels pretty good in these cars. To rebuild a 6 is probably going to be closer to 8k, but im not really familiar with that number. To do a rebuild on a sbc is ~ 1.5k Then the conversion parts are ~ 3k and this leaves you with a very powerful and reliable engine that transforms the car into one heck of a vehicle.

Most people do engine conversions because the car is just such a cool car and they would like more power and modern reliability/gas mileage. The subaru engine is a popular conversion now because it is really a great engine and gives good power, reliablility without sacrificing mileage.


The stock motors can certainly push out plenty of power, north of 200hp is attainable on 4 cylinder but it takes quite a bit of money (north of 10k) unless you turbocharge it, and even then you have to prepare the engine for the turbo so ~2-3k in engine work and another 2k or so in turbo equipment and such..




5. The first things to do are to get it back to proper working order. This includes the chassis. These cars are known for rust and that needs to be priority #1. The brakes, engine, trani, electrical ect. are all things that should be either rebuilt or serviced before going through with any mods. On a stock vehicle the only real mods that it needs are suspension mods (sway bars, shocks, springs), and decent tires. Then putting an exhaust that gives the car the sound you want is always on the top priority list when I get a car. Finally maybe a smaller steering wheel, and either some good seats or some racing harnesses to keep you locked in are pretty much all the car needs to keep you smiling through the twisties. The brakes on the car are fine, they just need to be serviced properly (rebuilt) and bled properly. However good semi racing brake pads are certainly something that should not be overlooked and are always very important.

Good luck!

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

Hey all,

I've been lurking for a couple weeks now reading all of these interesting topics and enjoying those threads where you folks are kind enough to share your builds. I am a car fan in general with a '66 mustang that I am just about ready to put on the road for the summer. Like any other project there is always more to do but I am ready to start looking for another project and I have a real fondness for the 914 and its unique looks. I like that it is both a coop and a convertible with the targa roof. I like the style and the unique look of the car. I love that you can't find one on every corner. It seems to be a very simple set up as far as working on it goes.

With that said I have some questions for anyone that would like to comment.

1. What kind of costs would a 914 project take? What I mean is that I am used to the costs associated with a classic Mustang. This a Porsche after all and I can just imagine parts and items being 3x as much as I might be used. The associated costs of parts might very well make this a no go.

The labor to restore a classic mustang or a 914 will be the same but plan on the 914 parts (due to the fact that they only made 116,000 as compared to over 2 million mustangs, to be four times as expensive. 914 restoration is no cheap venture but a very rewarding one as the 914 is a 500% better car than the mustang in every way

2. I really like the idea that these 914s can handle pretty well and even do double duty as a driver and a weekend racer. Although I don't have plans for that sort of thing, I like the idea that if I chose a 914 could easily do this. From what I have seen on this site many folks put in a different motor. Why is that? Is there something wrong with the stock motors to where one can not get power out of it?
The stock engine has very sufficient power especially the 2.0 however every guy wants more. There are so many engines that will fit that even though it involves a lot of labor and fabrication, the high horsepower engines are cheap. We would not recommend switching engines what so ever as it destroys the nature of the beast and the modified car will never give you a return on the time and money invested. NEVER

3. Availability of parts. Nothing sucks more than being close to finishing something up and not being able to get a part. Is that the case with 914s?
Parts are readily available and many of the members here are vendors as well. The joy of 914 restoration is accentuated by the ease instant availability of parts

4. Are there any part supplier catalogs that I could order (free hopefully) to take a look and see what can and can't be gotten for these cars and the costs? This could be a big help with question 3.
There is one and best 914 printed catalog out there and it is great.

5. What are the basic restore/mod projects (sway bars is one I read about) for a 914 to bring it up to modern day par? You know the 'if you have one you should do this this and that first thing.
The car in stock dress is great. Wider tires and or wheels along with new springs and bilstein gas shocks are really all you need. Sway bars are purely optional after you have had time to enjoy your 914 and get a good feel for it. CERTAINLY not necessary


The other project cars on my radar are: Miata (I know its not old), VW Super Beetle, Triumph TR-6, Datsun 510, Datsun 240z, and Alfa Spyder.
Nice cars but not one will hold a candle to a 914.

Anything else I should know or be aware of if I decide to jump in to another project with a 914? I appreciate your time and all comments and suggestions.
Watch the battery area. Even the most straight rust free 914 will be rusted in the battery area. Although the repair parts are readily available and in reproduction inexpensive, the repair is very time consuming and not for the amateur.
Buy the best 914 you can. There are still original examples with very very low miles out there for 25,000 that are a better buy than a 500 dollar rusted multiple painted worn out interior car missing parts. However the fun is in the restoration, and that is what keeps all of us 914 fanatics going, continuing to save another 914 and preserve the marque.

Thanks very much.

[flipb]

Engine rebuilds are expensive, but many parts are easy to come by. This is especially true to parts that are common to VW's - you'll find a lot of good deals by buying, for instance, Relays for a VW Bus - which happen to be exactly the same part, only cheaper. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Root_Werks]

$7500 - Go buy a nice 914 that doesn't "need" anything, but could use tinkering (Becuase tinkering is fun) and drive it.

Depends on the person, I don't have the resources anymore to buy a $1500 914, put $6k into it along with the thousands of hours required for my dumb-ass to get it all back together.

Spend the money up front, buy one that's as done as possible and enjoy it.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[underthetire]

Some of the parts can be expensive, like new bumpers or bumper pads, some interior parts, and such. Mechanical parts aren't terribly expensive. You will like this car more than the alpha or Super beetle for sure. Others IDK. Look for rust as said before. #1 problem.

[pt_700]

i agree with andrew about engine swaps. good power can be had from porsche 4 & 6 cylinder motors but, at considerable expense. as i've recently learned on this forum, corvair motors are a less expensive alternative that also don't require cooling system fabrication.

yup, parts will be more expensive than your mustangs but, still cheap compared to 911 parts or other european exotics that a good 914 could run circles around. if you haven't driven one yet, even an old worn out one, you're in for a surprise. "go kart like handling" is kind of cliche but, in this case, it's true!

i also agree with root werks in that you should buy the best car you can, with a keen eye towards staying away from rust!

one unmentioned thing to push you in the direction of getting a 914; participation in the BEST FORUM EVER!

[ripper911]

Get a 914
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/alfred.gif)

[tornik550]

RMOUSIR-
Where are you located in Ohio? I'm in Plain City (outside of Columbus) if you want to get together.

[orange914]

funny how many mustang owners generate toward 914's, you'll find alot of us here. in stock form the 914 will eat up mustangs in handling... the same can not be said about stock power though

1 cost can be higher than what you may be used to with your mustang, but like what was said, spend the $ upfront and get a solid driver to start with.

2 the engine build can an expensive experiance. to do it right and end up with 125 hp, the average guy will spend $5k easy. but 125 hp to 2000 lbs puts it into a fun driver power to weight range. and if done right you can see 30 mpg. if you had to deal with a new engine i would seriously at least consider a modern engine swap.

3 parts avalibility is great, like others have said alot interchanges with vw. you'll most likely be able to find anything you need here on classified

4 check with auto atlanta on a parts supply. they will send a c/d catalog. like any other business some like and some dislike them.

[Lennies914]

Spend allot of time reading through this forum. It's amazing how much good info is buried in here. If you read enough you'll answer all of your questions and know more about these little cars than you ever thought you would. Oh, and you'll end up with questions you haven't even thought of yet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

[TheCabinetmaker]

No offense George, but get one of your guys to show you how to use the qoute feature please.

[saigon71]

<---I have to agree with everyone else...buy the best one you can afford, unless you want a big and expensive project. Take someone who knows these cars with you to look at it if possible.

[bandjoey]

Get a running car with a great body first - no rust... And you can do a lot to the rest of the car at almost any budget. Since the cars are 40 years old your driver can be rebuilt one piece at a time. Breaks. Clutch. Suspension. Etc.

The CURSE of 914's is being on Jack stand forever. Do a search for some of the total rebuild projects here to see what I mean.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

[JRust]

I would lean towards a nice suby powered 914. Find a solid chassis as mentioned above. Then do a suby conversion. It can be done under 3k with you doing alot of the work. That is just the conversion & not including buying the right chassis. If you are patient even cheaper but you have to keep your eye's open & get the right parts once. Obviously you can go crazy with a suby build also. You can get up closer to 10k pretty easily. That is pying for alot of work & big hp turbo motor. I like keeping it simple & staying away froma turbo. You can build a ej25SOHC to push 2-250 on pump gas. You like tinkering so doing a motor swap shouldn't be to huge an undertaking. Best way is to find a suby that was wrecked but has everything you need. Look for a 2000 or newer suby with the ej25SOHC motor. Just my preferance though & I haven't even finished my first suby conversion (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) . So I am far from an expert or even competant (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) . I will be soon though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif)

[Dave_Darling]

George's AA has a pretty good website for parts. He used to send a catalog out (some years he charged for it, some he didn't, as I recall). Pelican (see my sig for a link) has an excellent on-line catalog. GPR are good guys, but I don't know what kind of catalog (if any!) they have. (Been a while since I have checked out the competition.)

As far as I can tell, everybody here loves GPR. Many people really like Pelican Parts. Some love Auto Atlanta, some love to hate them.

--DD

[rmousir]

Spend allot of time reading through this forum. It's amazing how much good info is buried in here. If you read enough you'll answer all of your questions and know more about these little cars than you ever thought you would. Oh, and you'll end up with questions you haven't even thought of yet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I spent about 3 hours last night surfing through this forum. Some very nice work is being done here.

RMOUSIR- Where are you located in Ohio? I'm in Plain City (outside of Columbus) if you want to get together.

I am in Batavia which is basically the east side of Cincinnati. If I ever get a 914 or go look at one a meet up would be fine.

I have lots more reading to do. I appreciate the input it is great to see such good support. That was one reason why I bought my mustang. The support on the forum reassured me that I could take on the challenge of a mustang. A good forum is probably the #1 tool to have. It is good to see that this forum is already paying off.

I am going to continue reading and maybe even start keeping a eye out for 914 sale adds to see what I can find them gong for. My initial thought is a complete tear down and restore/mod build. When I got my current project car I didn't know anything and now that I have gotten through all of that I will do the next project better. A frame up build. That is where the idea of a 914 comes in.

On these Subaru motor swaps, do the motors bolt in? Or do we need to modify the frame/mounts? I will do some searches tonight on this forum to find some treads. I am sure that all the details will be there.

[scott_in_nh]

It looks like I am a bit ahead of you so I will share my experiences to date.
I have been reading here and on the club for about 5 months now and have actively been looking for about 4 months. My initial budget was $5k, but not finding what I was looking for at that price I upped my budget to $7k including shipping.

The enthusiasts here and on the club have some very nice cars - some in great shape to begin with and others that were project cars made right. As someone who understands the value of enthusiasm and dedication to a marquee, I want to buy a car from an enthusiast, but the problem for me is that you guys don’t sell that many completed cars that often!

Above somebody mentioned a $7500 car that doesn’t need anything. I have found this car to be as elusive as Bigfoot. I have read the stories and seen the pictures, but when you look at what is on the market right now today I find reality quite different.

Outside of the enthusiast website members and their cars, my experience so far has been that cars advertised in this price range that are “restored” and “needs nothing” are poorly repaired cars that need quite a bit and are really only $5k cars at best. These cars have honestly had $5k to $10k put into them and they still need work or rework!

I expect that any car will need attention and $$ spent and I am not talking about putting the car in concours condition, I am talking about having a safe, drivable car that performs as it should, looks good from 10’ and where the metal and mechanical repairs that were done were done well.
This is NOT what I am finding for $6-7k!

I am starting to lean toward a no structural rust, no patch panel, original or older paint, just so I can be sure of what I bought and how the money gets spent, but am trying to avoid a full blown project car and it has to be at a price that leaves me enough money to get it on the road – talk about a narrow line to walk!

I have mostly enjoyed the search so far - I have made some friends, learned a lot and I love looking at cars and talking about them, but I have also been sorely disappointed by cars that I really thought I was coming home with (until I actually looked at them or had them looked at for me).

If you decide to jump in - good luck with your search!

[flipb]

Scott and rmousir, you're both close enough to my area that maybe this will be of interest? I have no affiliation, but it sounds like it could take a $500 tranny/clutch repair job to make this a solid driver.

Maybe you can ask Type47, jmuriz, or another local to help you out with a PPI... I'm close enough, but not smart enough! Only been in this for 18 months and didn't do a good PPI on mine, but I seem to have been pretty lucky.