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> Trailing Arm Bushings, what do you use?
porsche735
post Apr 14 2003, 10:09 AM
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I have gone through 3 complete sets of the Weltmeister hard plastic bushings and am a little sick of it. Our first set, we put in as is and they lasted until the face cracked on them. Lasted about 3 years. The second set, I took Brad's advice and "matched" the length of the shaft and the bushings (installed the bushings and sanded down the faces until it matched the end lenght of the shaft). This lasted about 1 year. Did the same thing with the 3rd set and they lasted 2 events. Nothing is cracked on them, but the arm moved longitudinally along the shaft about 3/16 (this is more than I sanded off the face).
My question is, what do you think could be going on?
Also, what types do you all use? I am thinking of going with the softer urethane bushings to get rid of this cracking...

Thanks,
Chris
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Brad Roberts
post Apr 14 2003, 11:44 AM
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Hum..

I thought I spoke to you about using the soft ones. That is what I install and trim (a little).

Do you have the inside control arm ears braced with a rod/tube to the front of them ear ? I know you have had to reweld them in the past.. but dont recall if you ran the legal tube that zone 7 says we can run.

B
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airsix
post Apr 14 2003, 12:11 PM
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Ok, could Brad or someone else with good background on this topic write up a "How-to"? I'm just about to do this (as in planned to order parts today) and once again I've slammed on the brakes. I was about to order the hard compound bushings.

What's the scoop Brad? I hope you don't tire of dispensing this info, but I've only been able to gather bits and pieces here and there (regarding the bushings). Many thanks.

-Ben M.
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Gint
post Apr 14 2003, 12:55 PM
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The last set I did were the Welt "soft" or street bushings at Brad's suggestion. Worked fine for the few months before I sold the car.
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porsche735
post Apr 14 2003, 01:42 PM
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Brad,
I don't recall the soft recommendation. But, anyway, Bontempi uses the hard ones and hasn't had any problems (he says). So, that's what we continued to go with... I think I will go with the soft ones this time. I will do it without shaving anything off.
Does anyone else shave a little off (about 1mm) to fit the length of the trailing arm shaft?

We do have the bracing to the fire wall installed. We also added another piece of metal to the "ear hole" and re-drilled. Hasn't moved a bit since then. Looks like the bushings are now the weak link....

Thanks,
Chris
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Jeroen
post Apr 14 2003, 02:09 PM
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Read this thread, it has some good info on installing the rear bushings

cheers,

Jeroen
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Brad Roberts
post Apr 14 2003, 02:44 PM
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Chris,

We have Bontempi's car up here. He doesnt use Welt brand bushings in his car. He has some one off bushings made out of different material. The car is here to be converted to roller bearings and some welding done by Tony.

How do your shafts look ?? Are they well worn where they ride on the bushings ??

I'll be honest here: You are pushing the chassis/suspension to the limit. More so than anybody on this list or any other list. You have two drivers BOTH pushing the car on the same weekends. I promise your going to see things happen that none of us have ever experienced.

Our biggest problem has been elogating the hole in the inner ear. This was solved by trimming the bushings so the shaft locked down against the ear and the outer mount plate.

I need to stop by your place and spend some time around the car.

B
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airsix
post Apr 14 2003, 02:56 PM
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So what are you recommending for Joe Schmoe do-it-yourselfer weekend racer daily driver? Properly done plastic? Save up for rollers (what about maintenance/longevity)? Leave the 30 year old rubber in there (yikes!)?

-Ben M.
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TimT
post Apr 14 2003, 03:02 PM
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QUOTE
if you ran the legal tube that zone 7 says we can run.



Can someone show me a pic of this tube?.

Ive got plastic bushings in my ride, installed by the p/o so Ill assume the worst ( hell the car had #650lb rear springs!!)

The engines ouptut is probably about 250HP so id like to get the suspension reinforced properly
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porsche735
post Apr 14 2003, 03:09 PM
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That's funny about Bontempi. I asked him when we went to the shop to get the bushings that are in there now. He had both the hard plastic and the "street" bushings. He said he used the hard platic ones in his car (this came after I told him our woes with the hard ones). Given his recommendation, we decided to give it another try. Maybe he just meant hard bushings. Does he use Delrin? My grandfather is a machinist and could make use some if that would work...
The shafts look OK. We are not wearing out the holes and we are not ovalling (is that a word) the ear holes. That is all fine. What we are getting is direct side to side movement. We noticed it because the car felt like it was sliding a bit before catching. Little did we know it really was sliding (but the tires weren't). Doing 90mph around turn 8 at Buttonwillow is a little scary with the car acting like that!

Chris

p.s. Brad, stop by any time. I will be trying to get this gremlin of the cut out killed once and for all. Got to get it solved before Laguna.
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porsche735
post Apr 14 2003, 03:11 PM
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Tim,
Try this link for the bracing...
http://www.pca-ggr.org/ggrrulebook.html#_Toc532905451

Our's is a little different, but close... We made it so you can easily drop the engine.

Chris
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jonwatts
post Apr 14 2003, 03:14 PM
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Ben! Brother! Compadre!

I had the Weltmeister street bushings recommended to me also.
I have a set that I installed but haven't used (my car, she is a no go, no?). I was looking for someone to sell them to so that I could be a test pig for mueller's rear roller bearing setup (since I'm doing the fronts also).
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TimT
post Apr 14 2003, 03:21 PM
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Chris, thanks

Ill have to have a look at the car and see what I can come up with that reinforces like that and allows the easy engine drop.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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porsche735
post Apr 14 2003, 03:25 PM
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I'll try to pull out the digital camera and show you our setup. Maybe tonight if the wife will let me get under the car.

Chris
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airsix
post Apr 14 2003, 03:31 PM
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QUOTE(jonwatts @ Apr 14 2003, 01:14 PM)
Ben! Brother! Compadre!

I had the Weltmeister street bushings recommended to me also.
I have a set that I installed but haven't used (my car, she is a no go, no?). I was looking for someone to sell them to so that I could be a test pig for mueller's rear roller bearing setup (since I'm doing the fronts also).

(snif) Why don't I get to be a test pig?

-Ben M.

ps - How much you want? Have they been trimmed/cut/sanded/boiled/augered/hammered, or otherwise mollested?

pps- I thougth it was "test mule". Ok, maybe the car is the mule and we are the pigs?
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jonwatts
post Apr 14 2003, 03:49 PM
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You can be a test pig, just buy the roller bearings from mueller. The advantage I have is if they fail I can show him the failure mode since we live (relatively) close.

test mule... test pig... any barn yard animal will do, IMO.

The only mutilation I did to the street bushings was to scroll a little groove on the inside to try and retain more of the lube. Since street bushings aren't that expensive to begin with ($60?) I'd probably be lucky to get $40 for them.
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Jeroen
post Apr 14 2003, 04:04 PM
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here's some pics from the rear susp reinforcement...

HTH

Jeroen
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Jeroen
post Apr 14 2003, 04:04 PM
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'nother one...
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URY914
post Apr 14 2003, 04:12 PM
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Looks like what I was going to do to my car. Is that 1/2 tubing?
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Jeroen
post Apr 14 2003, 04:35 PM
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sorry, I've got no further info... just the pics

cheers,

jeroen
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