One messed up build thread. Nothing's gonna be right, I've been neglecting one of my cars. I'm a bad man. Options

[rohar]

So I've been playing with this thing a bit and collecting parts while the wife had me busy rebuilding most of the house. Now that's over and I've got most of the construction debris out of the garage so I thought I'd start a build thread to document whatever progress occurs now that I have time to get to work on this thing.

I fell out of cars for a couple of years while I chased around the country with my career. Tough to build a car while you're moving every 6 months. When we wound up back in Spokane permanently, I bought this chassis as my birthday present. 1975, originally a 1.8. Chassis is pretty clean. I've already installed billet front hubs and redrilled rears at 4x114.4 so I could keep my enkeis from a previous project, they'll probably get powder coated black before this is all over. Also went with the upgraded master cyl and 3" 911 front calipers.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/public.bay.livefilestore.com-9685-1302826581.1.jpg)

Only slightly scary rust is in the hell hole. Longs look pretty good and hell hole should be a pretty easy fix. The pic makes it look worse than it feels under a screwdriver. Obviously the batt tray is a bit shot:

(IMG:http://ftdaha.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pxcbo8_qRm_qDebALZgK1eNo5rQv8wqteySoAnLt4MnxxtuJ8BIc4TP6-9gfFSWid1qUhqUgX3fi7mIcfPcm73-GZjsOEn-Wi/P1010059.jpg)

The engine and tranny are out of a 2.8l 12v V6 A4. It seems to fit well after a bit of the trunk was relieved of it's dignity:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/oh1xza.bay.livefilestore.com-9685-1302826582.2.jpg)

The throttle comes out the back of the variable runner length manifold so it would stick into the trunk, except it's symmetrical so I should be able to turn it around and gain some space after I grind the power steering pump mounts off the block.

The output flanges on this tranny have a HUGE diameter AND they're offset by quite a few mm. I'm going to stick with stock size CV joints for now and see where that goes. 200ft/lbs shouldn't grenade them immediately. To pull this all together, I had a local guy I've worked with before throw some stainless on the lathe:

(IMG:http://ftdaha.bay.livefilestore.com/y1ppkgXonLknIqta8AInPF-NZz2tGpZigmTQ3jxQVeibDYn6wzACYV40QBs6Cn_BMO17rfXNbuVSLJ72yu_EB70PXnAsVcy8UGt/P1010058.jpg)

A bit heavy, but I intentionally left a bunch of material there in case I have to go to bigger CVs later. Risky move, but I think I'm gonna take it. Too late now in any case.

As you can see, the belt array is directly in line with where the stock cross bar was, and with the audi tranny, the crank (and whole engine) are a bit lower than the stock type IV so motor mounts aren't gonna be as easy as I had hoped:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/public.bay.livefilestore.com-9685-1302826582.3.jpg)

The steel for the mounts is in the garage. Tomorrow, I start tackling that problem.

[rohar]

Managed to knock out one tranny mount today. I'm determined to blast the other one out tomorrow. I think I wore out my welder's compass on the angles and dangles on the first one, but I'm determined to get rid of the tough fabrication within 24 hours.

More pics to follow.

[rohar]

WHOOHOO! The engine, tranny and chassis are now one. It wasn't pretty, and I had to sacrifice a couple of goats the the Porsche gods, but it's done. Now on to the brainless stuff.

A problem popped up though, my favorite auto dismantler sent me an email that they've got an Audi 3.6l v8 they're trying to unload. If I work them, I could pick up the engine, radiator, clutch master and radiator for under $1k. Miles are a bit high, but compression numbers seem good. Seems silly to go though this much trouble without going mind numbingly big.

Thoughts guys?

[RJMII]

I've been contemplating getting rid of my mind numbingly big so I can have my trunk space back. What fun is RRC if I have to wear the same set of clothes all weekend?

[rohar]

This is the hard part. I'll loose virtually no rear trunk with either engine. The rear lateral line is virtually identical on both. The mounts are identical so all the fab work I've done will still work. 250hp NA vs 170hp is a bit exciting. Aluminum block as well so there's no weight penalty. Beyond that, the off the shelf turbo manifolds for the 16v will bolt right up.

ARGH! It's so damned tempting.

[jcambo7]

I've been contemplating getting rid of my mind numbingly big so I can have my trunk space back. What fun is RRC if I have to wear the same set of clothes all weekend?

Jim, get a 2.0 or a 2056 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif) and have some fun in your car instead leaving it in the garage!

[rohar]

Ok, I slept on it. Better judgment got the best of me. I'm reverting to my original plan, getting the v6 going and worry about a v8 later.

If I decide to go there later, it'll be a drop in as almost everything is the same. Besides, 4.2 v8s are only getting cheaper and maybe by the time I get to that point someone will have figured out low compression pistons for the beastie.

Pics today, promise.

[rohar]

Looks like the engine/tranny portion of this project is suspended. Got all the mounts done, bolted everything to the car, dropped it back on it's wheels and the engine and tranny just sat there, suspended (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/oh1xza.bay.livefilestore.com-9685-1307804575.1.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/oh1xza.bay.livefilestore.com-9685-1307804576.2.jpg)

[JRust]

Looking great! Keep up the progress. This is the weather we want to be driving out teeners in. Your going to love your motor combo. 170hp in a teener is a blast (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[rohar]

Thanks JRust. I'm still pushing. At this point it's starting to feel more like a job than a hobby. One project at a time...

After getting the mounts done and the car back on the ground/leveled. I double checked the engine position/level. Everything's within 2mm of perfect. In retrospect, I'm a little amazed it came in that close.

I'm thinking the clutch is the next project. Hopefully it'll be on the road by fall.

[JmuRiz]

Cool build, are you keeping the 12v stock or hot-ridding it? If you want to hot it up, I know of a guy on an Audi forum that does amazing stuff with the 12v motor (more hp than my 30v).

[rohar]

It's gonna remain "fairly" stockish. Anything that doesn't need to be there will go away and it'll run on aftermarket FI at the start. Once it drives, I'm gonna warm it up a bit. The geometry on this engine isn't much different than the VW 8v crossflow, just a couple extra pistons and I've got WAY too many years pushing them so I'm guessing a lot of that will translate.

[brp986s]

What's preventing the gearbox from swinging laterally, unreasonably? The pics so far don't look right.

[rohar]

What's preventing the gearbox from swinging laterally, unreasonably? The pics so far don't look right.

Hard to see in the pics. They come out about 3-4" from the tranny so there's all kinds of diagonal structure there. Beyond that, you'll notice the thicker plates on the tranny end gusseting a whole lot of steel against the 1/2" plate bolted in the stock location on the tranny. It's at least 2x the strength/rigidity of the stock mounts in the Audi just a slightly different shape. I'll see if I can't get a shot from the back to help make more sense tomorrow.

[rohar]

As promised, but a bit late. Butt shot:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/oh1xza.bay.livefilestore.com-9685-1308246223.1.jpg)

Plenty of torsional rigidity. Thankfully there won't be much for side loads and what there are will be pretty well handled by the way over sized forward mounts.

/please ignore the exhaust stub, it came with the engine and will be replaced.

[rohar]

Ok, got some time on my hands again. Work's been nuts and spending the weekend at the track with the folks from ChumpCar didn't help my project much. On the up side, I'm pretty well convinced this one isn't going to chump, so may as well do things as right as possible. (stay tuned on the Chump subject, another non 914 chassis showed up and so did funding). After letting it sit for a month, it's time to address the radiator. Managed to snag an s6 v8 radiator, mounting's a bit interesting but it looks as if it'll fit. Anyone have any ideas what to do with the integrated oil cooler?

Oh, and for those thinking of going the Audi tranny route, I've got a fabricator working on another half shaft solution. It's either going to be interesting and relatively inexpensive or complete junk.

[Andyrew]

The S6 radiator has an integrated oil cooler?

I say use it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Run some lines up front and do it! You could run the lines through the heater ducts.


Half shaft solution? Does it involve welding (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)?

[rohar]

This one does, and the label on the box says S6 so I'm assuming so. Could be a tranny cooler. Not real up on the more modern Audis.

Yeah, it does involve welding, but we're aware of those down sides. We've found a source for the tripod in the Audi CV. I'm gonna cut them to length, build them up in the forge, mill the buildup down to the size of the center on the tripod, weld them down on the edges as well as 3 rosette welds, then anneal/reharden the darned things. I'm still kicking around putting a teener in chump following a similar build. If they see shiny milled adapters in AIV, they're gonna start handing out penalty laps like they're going out of style.

In the end, the axle itself will have the tripod on the end. Yeah, it's some work but dirt cheep. If they don't work, I'll just throw the adapters back on.

[rohar]

Ok, so I managed to get the frames/mounts done today and lined them with about 1/4" of silicone to allow the body to flex a bit without wrecking the radiator. Everything's fitting together well so I'm freaked out. Pix to follow tomorrow.

[rohar]

I managed to get the rails and clamps for the radiator done last night. Now, on to the mounting tabs!

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i910.photobucket.com-9685-1312044022.1.jpg)

You think it might be big enough?

[rohar]

Alright, all the mounting is done for the radiator. It's been a long HOT day. 90F in the garage as I was playing with the welder. Looks like the last of the welding I'm gonna have to do is done. Timing was awesome as the bottle's empty. As always, pics in the morning, I'm too tired to deal with my camera.